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The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

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Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#81

Post by Aunche »

retrac wrote: post #37
jdmoreira wrote: post #8

> American parents on both sides of the political spectrum know this and are increasingly frustrated by how little they have been offered in this country—particularly in exchange for the high taxes they pay. How much taxes do Americans think we Europeans pay? Those dutch parents are paying close to 60-70% taxes once you account also for VAT

> 60-70% taxes The highest Dutch tax bracket is 50%, but that only applies to income over 75K EUR. Also, VAT doesn't apply to rent, and it's reduced for food. Housing and food are most household's largest expenses. So the 21% sales tax can be deceptive. Taxation as a % of the Dutch GDP is 38%. That is to say, taxes take 38% of all the wealth produced in the Netherlands. For some comparison purposes, the number in the…

The US has one of the most progressive tax rates of any nation. Not only do we not have a VAT, but also the top 10% pay over 70% of all income taxes. I don't think that it's a coincidence that the American government seems especially inefficient at spending money.

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/summary-latest-fe...

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#82

Post by rootusrootus »

MBlume wrote: post #4

I'm strongly in favor of expanding the US social safety net, but I don't want to neglect other obvious factors here. Dutch children are able to walk or bike outside unsupervised. In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer. I think this kind of freedom of movement has a big effect on happiness, it certainly did for me. ETA relevant links: https://yout…

> In the US they'd risk either being killed by a driver, or stopped by an overzealous neighbor or police officer.

This is true on the Internet, but not true in any real life place I've lived in the US.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#83

Post by throwaway49849 »

bojan wrote: post #74
throwaway49849 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For context, 75,518 EUR is $81,014. So if you're a software engineer making $200k, you're paying 37% on the first $81,014, or $30,000, and then 50% on the remaining $118,986, or $60,000. For a grand total of $90k on your $200k salary. Oof. In a modern society, with modern technology, why does the government demand ownership of 30-50% of the value that people generate? That's an enormous amount of free labor.

It's not a good example as almost no-one has a salary that high. For software engineers you're looking at say 90-100K as an average maximum, with vast majority earning less than that. Edit to cover your edit: it's certainly not free labour, I happily pay my taxes because I believe I'm getting quiet something in return.

It is free labor. You giving your income to the government is equivalent to doing free work. And of course, some level of that is required. I'm not anti-tax, I'm anti wasteful tax. And to my mind, requiring 30%-50% of everyones created value, just to maintain society, is enormously wasteful. There is no way in hell an efficient society actually requires that level of income tax of everyone.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#84

Post by renewiltord »

throwaway49849 wrote: post #62
retrac wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 60-70% taxes The highest Dutch tax bracket is 50%, but that only applies to income over 75K EUR. Also, VAT doesn't apply to rent, and it's reduced for food. Housing and food are most household's largest expenses. So the 21% sales tax can be deceptive. Taxation as a % of the Dutch GDP is 38%. That is to say, taxes take 38% of all the wealth produced in the Netherlands. For some comparison purposes, the number in the…

For context, 75,518 EUR is $81,014. So if you're a software engineer making $200k, you're paying 37% on the first $81,014, or $30,000, and then 50% on the remaining $118,986, or $60,000. For a grand total of $90k on your $200k salary. Oof. In a modern society, with modern technology, why does the government demand ownership of 30-50% of the value that people generate? That's an enormous amount of free labor.

For comparison, in California if you're making $1m W-2 income, you'll lose $470k to total taxes (Federal+State+FICA). The difference is not that huge. The difference is what you get for that 47%. Go higher and there's a 1% extra mental health services tax.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#85

Post by rootusrootus »

thfuran wrote: post #68
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overzealous neighbors in the US will have someone's house sold out from under them when the grass is too high and they don't pay the fines to the HOA for mowing it. The idea that they'll be ok with children wandering around unsupervised is preposterous on its face. The cops might not care either way, but only until the busybodies start nagging. Especially the sort of busybodies that live in the places where any sane…

The US is a country with hundreds of millions of people in tens of thousands of municipalities in dozens of states. The idea that because outliers exist, they describe the typical experience everywhere in the nation is preposterous on its face.

One place I'd have hoped would be able to understand such a simple concept is HN. Especially with all the Europeans who frequent this site.

330 million people with about the same land area as Europe. Yet people simultaneously think there can be a pretty big difference between, say, UK and Poland, but think that every newsworthy event that happens anywhere in the US is representative of all of the US.

It would be hilarious if it were not sad.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#86

Post by JumpCrisscross »

bitwize wrote: post #66
throwitaway222 wrote: post #51

> "Dutch parenting" allowing kids to bike in the rain... That's how I grew up IN America. So what is parenting in America now?

Helicopter parenting. You risk a visit from CPS in the best case, and arrest (and forfeiture of your children) in the worst case, for not engaging in it.

> You risk a visit from CPS in the best case, and arrest (and forfeiture of your children) in the worst case, for not engaging in it.

There is evidence of class bias in this policy's enforcement.

I live in Jackson Hole. Kids are unaccompanied everywhere. I also remember the same in Manhattan. My friends raising families in Phoenix, on the other hand, have almost continuous totally-bizarre interactions with their cops.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#87

Post by piafraus »

bojan wrote: post #74
throwaway49849 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For context, 75,518 EUR is $81,014. So if you're a software engineer making $200k, you're paying 37% on the first $81,014, or $30,000, and then 50% on the remaining $118,986, or $60,000. For a grand total of $90k on your $200k salary. Oof. In a modern society, with modern technology, why does the government demand ownership of 30-50% of the value that people generate? That's an enormous amount of free labor.

It's not a good example as almost no-one has a salary that high. For software engineers you're looking at say 90-100K as an average maximum, with vast majority earning less than that. Edit to cover your edit: it's certainly not free labour, I happily pay my taxes because I believe I'm getting quiet something in return.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/software-engineer-salary-...

> The estimated total pay for a Software Engineer is $140,779 per year in the United States area, with an average salary of $118,761 per year. These numbers represent the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. The estimated additional pay is $22,017 per year. Additional pay could include cash bonus, commission, tips, and profit sharing. The "Most Likely Range" represents values that exist within the 25th and 75th percentile of all pay data available for this role

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#88

Post by hooper_ »

I had a simmilar experiance in Iceland, compared to my home country (Australia). Some examples:

* The birth of our son cost us a total of $50. That was parking fees and a bed for me in the same room as my Partner. Who had a 30 hour labor and an emergancy C-Section.

* For the first couple of weeks we had a nurse coming over and checking up on the health of my partner and son. Organized and paid for by the goverment.

* Both myself and my Partner got 3 months maternaty/paternaty leave. Then another 3 months to split. And we could take that however we wanted. I ended up work 20hours a week for the first month.

* Once our son was a little older and was going to Daycare, he was sick, a lot! I wasn't at work for more than 3 days a week for the first 3 months. I went to my boss to appologize and offer to take holiday days or something, and he laughed at me and said "No! I knew this was going to happen, your a new parent, look after your child!".

* Kids as young as 5 and 6 would walk to school, in the snow, by themselves.

That contrasts with my experiance in Australia:

* Its illiegal for my son to walk to school by himself, before he's ~12

* It cost us as much per week for daycare in Australia, as it did per month in Iceland.

IMHO, this comes down to a sociatal prioritization and allocation of resources. When countries invest in their children, they are investing in their future.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#89

Post by pierat »

bojan wrote: post #74
throwaway49849 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For context, 75,518 EUR is $81,014. So if you're a software engineer making $200k, you're paying 37% on the first $81,014, or $30,000, and then 50% on the remaining $118,986, or $60,000. For a grand total of $90k on your $200k salary. Oof. In a modern society, with modern technology, why does the government demand ownership of 30-50% of the value that people generate? That's an enormous amount of free labor.

It's not a good example as almost no-one has a salary that high. For software engineers you're looking at say 90-100K as an average maximum, with vast majority earning less than that. Edit to cover your edit: it's certainly not free labour, I happily pay my taxes because I believe I'm getting quiet something in return.

If we're paying 'social democracy sized taxes', you damn straight I demand social democracy policies.

But nope, we just get "sell more weapons to Israel and Ukraine", and more class warfare.

Re: The happiest kids in the world have social safety nets

#90

Post by JohnFen »

thfuran wrote: post #68
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overzealous neighbors in the US will have someone's house sold out from under them when the grass is too high and they don't pay the fines to the HOA for mowing it. The idea that they'll be ok with children wandering around unsupervised is preposterous on its face. The cops might not care either way, but only until the busybodies start nagging. Especially the sort of busybodies that live in the places where any sane…

The US is a country with hundreds of millions of people in tens of thousands of municipalities in dozens of states. The idea that because outliers exist, they describe the typical experience everywhere in the nation is preposterous on its face.

This was the fundamental point I was alluding to.

The US is huge, and incredibly diverse. I have no doubt that there are places where the sorts of things being reported here happen. I know for a fact, though, that there are many places where such things are unheard of.

As a rule of thumb, any time someone says "this is how it is in the US", they're probably wrong. It may be how it is in some parts of the US, but there are few things that are actually universal here.

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