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Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

centerforbuilding.org

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Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#101

Post by oldtownroad »

diggan wrote: post #40
petschge wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe a closet is furniture, not a built in room.

Not sure if that's wide-spread enough to claim "In Europe". I currently live in a flat in Barcelona (the European one) and two out of three bedrooms has at least one built-in closet in them.

Either you’re misunderstanding closet to mean a built-in wardrobe or… I don’t know what other explanation there could be. American closets (i.e: a whole room of 100+ square feet, dedicated to storage of clothes) just don’t exist in “normal” European flats/apartments/homes. You’d be an outlier if you have an American-style closet in Europe. Regardless of how much you’re spending, they just don’t exist in >95% of properties.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#102

Post by jessriedel »

watwut wrote: post #70
bluGill wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in America can drive for 5 minutes for more beer. If you can't legally drive because of how drunk you are, then most stores won't sell you more beer. People might drive 30 minutes for beer, but that is about either price or selection, not availability. Though many cities have weird laws so some places you can't get beer at all in town, and that would push you to the 30 minute drive. But where I live many…

You cant legally drive when you had one small beer. You can legally buy beers or other alcohol when you already had one beer. If the store is not selling you alcohol due to intoxication, you should stop driving several drinks ago. I can get good selection of beers or other alcohol at reasonable price in the regular store within 5-10 min of walk anywhere in the city assuming it is not middle of the night.

> You cant legally drive when you had one small beer

Not in the US. The legal limit in almost all states is 0.08.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#103

Post by avidiax »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #49
bouncing wrote: post #2

> In February, I, along with real estate developer Bobby Fijan, went on the Bloomberg podcast Odd Lots to talk about why it’s so hard to find a family-sized apartment in the United States. I argued that North American zoning and building codes work together to drive up the size of multi-bedroom apartments in particular, putting them financially out of reach for many parents raising children. In other words, even if d…

> Just everything in Europe is tiny. T i n y. And frankly, it's not that much cheaper over here either The real kicker is that price of houses / assets is not attached to physical reality any more. Financialization drives up the price of real estate. When the financial markets trade real estate, no-one gives a rat's ass if it's a mansion or a shed - the only thing that matters is that number goes up. As was demonstra…

30 year mortgages plus the 1/3rd of salary mortgage approval heuristic means that desirable real estate costs 10 years of salary.

If we had 10 year maximum mortgages, real estate would cost 1/3rd as much, roughly.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#104

Post by engineer_22 »

nostrebored wrote: post #24
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #8

I'm not an expert on building codes but a large difference in North America is there is much more space in general when building new so I don't quite think the argument is valid. Americans simply want a lot more space. If a developer built smaller sized 3 or 4 bedroom apartments they would have trouble selling to the price point they want.

Right, but this makes sprawl. There is more space, but how much of it are we going to dedicate to parking, larger units, etc? How tall will we make the building? Things here are really, really bad. Zoning is the only lever we have to fix it.

Not bad, just different.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#105

Post by scythe »

detourdog wrote: post #78
bouncing wrote: post #2

> In February, I, along with real estate developer Bobby Fijan, went on the Bloomberg podcast Odd Lots to talk about why it’s so hard to find a family-sized apartment in the United States. I argued that North American zoning and building codes work together to drive up the size of multi-bedroom apartments in particular, putting them financially out of reach for many parents raising children. In other words, even if d…

What makes it even more complicated is that in Massachusetts and I assume other states in Union use the International Building Code to dictate building codes. This means that new construction and significant renovation all fall under the international building codes. I think that the USA doesn't have the existing family sized apartment stock that the market might current be demanding. The other countries by having la…

>International Building Code

As I've explained before, it's the World Series of building codes:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39050267

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#106

Post by yonran »

pwb25 wrote: post #51
just_1_comment wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where is the uber, airbnb and doordash for housing? Outside of SF and Silicon Valley.

which is quite ironic, all those "new tech" people hate new tech in their own areas

> all those "new tech" people hate new tech in their own areas

Unfortunately, the recent generation of tech workers have not been represented in local politics. As far as I know, none of the supervisors or mayors in recent memory in San Francisco have worked in technology; they typically come from nonprofits, unions, or just landed gentry. It is not young tech workers who refuse to rezone and amend the building code for affordability, it is older homeowners and nonprofit special interests. The Board of Supervisors (the city council) has been rather hostile to tech for the past decade or more.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#107

Post by geodel »

woah wrote: post #62
tempsy wrote: post #44

America is mostly suburban by choice. Most people do not want to live in an apartment or condo long term if they plan on raising or have a family if they live basically anywhere that isn’t NYC. I find the YIMBY assumption that everyone wishes every city and town was more NYC to just be untrue. People just want detached houses to be cheaper. Most aren’t dreaming about affording a 3 or 4 bed apartment.

Why are apartments in the city so much more expensive then? Your opinion is contradicted by reality.

Because there are lot of people who are single/couple, living with boy/girl or just friends, going to university, traveling job and so on. As you can see there is large category of people who are not raising families or planning for long term in city. So obviously there is big demand of apartments but not family size apartments.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#108

Post by mperham »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #8

I'm not an expert on building codes but a large difference in North America is there is much more space in general when building new so I don't quite think the argument is valid. Americans simply want a lot more space. If a developer built smaller sized 3 or 4 bedroom apartments they would have trouble selling to the price point they want.

> Americans simply want a lot more space.

I'm American and I don't. Stop stereotyping.

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#109

Post by wolverine876 »

bluescrn wrote: post #25

'Family' and 'Apartment' are words that don't go very well together. Children/large families can be noisy. And they benefit from safe outdoor space to play. For the childless WFH-er trying to concentrate, it's not much fun when kids noisily use the communal areas of apartment buildings as a playground. I know this from experience. Thankfully, noise-cancelling headphones are pretty good these days.

> For the childless WFH-er trying to concentrate, it's not much fun when kids noisily use the communal areas of apartment buildings as a playground.

Personally, I love the sound of kids - it creates an atmosphere of energy, joy, love, a lack of cynicism (such as found in certain HN posts :) ) ... It's a wonderful work environment and a palliative for working with (many) adults.

(Sadly, they grow up to be adults like the rest. How does that happen? We suck at raising kids - they come out worse than when they were at 6 or 10 years old.)

Re: Why we can’t build family-sized apartments in North America

#110

Post by nottorp »

watwut wrote: post #70
bluGill wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in America can drive for 5 minutes for more beer. If you can't legally drive because of how drunk you are, then most stores won't sell you more beer. People might drive 30 minutes for beer, but that is about either price or selection, not availability. Though many cities have weird laws so some places you can't get beer at all in town, and that would push you to the 30 minute drive. But where I live many…

You cant legally drive when you had one small beer. You can legally buy beers or other alcohol when you already had one beer. If the store is not selling you alcohol due to intoxication, you should stop driving several drinks ago. I can get good selection of beers or other alcohol at reasonable price in the regular store within 5-10 min of walk anywhere in the city assuming it is not middle of the night.

Missing the point entirely, I see.

The point is the europe apartment doesn't need survivalist style storage because it's close to stores. I could have said Mars bars or steaks but the OP post was about a beer fridge so I went along with it.

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