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Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

theguardian.com

101–110 of 202 posts

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#101
post #7

That has included me, in the past. It is stupid easy to accidentally have a debt to a hospital. For families, sensible privacy rules at clinics can mean that it is very hard to choke point bills to a single person. To the point that I asked every time if I owed money when I did checkups to be told that we did not. Only to later find that my family did, in fact, have a bill due. For a while. Recently I'm getting it wi…

One thing my mom has been dealing with recently is where the insurance EOB and the bill differs substantially. My mom called the hospital to ask for an explanation and poof the bill is magically lowered by a several hundred dollars. How the heck is this not criminal fraud? Why are people allowed to simply bill whatever they feel like it, and why is my mother getting 'balance billed' for random amounts? They're still…

Yeah, they play this game enough that I simply question fucking everything. They will explain every single line item in a way that I can map back to a timeline, or they will take it off.

This has to be done in person, where they can't be, uh, accidentally disconnected, but I've found the rate-of-return on that time hard to beat. They discover all sorts of "mistakes" when you're taking up their billing specialists' time.

It is a bit like haggling over your car price after you already bought it; the main thing to get over is the social discomfort of being a pain in the ass, so they can't use that against you.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#102

Don't let yourself get caught up in these details. The problem is the unreformed healthcare system; these are just more symptoms of it. It's like the old, failing server at work - people say the problem is the power supply, the outdated driver, etc. - it's not; the problem is we haven't installed a new server. We all can see the US healthcare system is awful. If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you.…

> The politicians against healthcare reform are well-known Who are they specifically?

We get to pick from the politicians that the DNC and the RNC allow us to pick from.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#103
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you. What do you expect me to do about it? I live in a reliably blue area and it's Republicans who are blocking things like a single-payer system. So what exactly are you suggesting? Uproot my life and go move to a swing state so I can vote Democrat there? Because short of that, I don't know what. And the country is so culturally divided, it's not like there are…

A single-payer system doesn’t seem like a magic fix to me at all. At best, a single payer could , at least in principle, wield enough market power to improve the overall system. Just look at Medicare. Medicare has enormous market power, but it uses that power in more or less absurd ways and does not optimize patient outcomes or its own expenditures particularly effectively.

It sure works in a bunch of other countries. I don't think there's anything special about the US that it wouldn't.

And it enables things like optimizing for patient outcomes that can't be achieved with private insurance.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#104

Don't let yourself get caught up in these details. The problem is the unreformed healthcare system; these are just more symptoms of it. It's like the old, failing server at work - people say the problem is the power supply, the outdated driver, etc. - it's not; the problem is we haven't installed a new server. We all can see the US healthcare system is awful. If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you.…

> generations of Americans and other democracies have managed to get things done.

That's how we got here in the first place. Generations of Americans doing it the American way.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#105
post #55

This seems like a good thread to mention the book "Never Pay The First Bill" by journalist Marshall Allen. I've worked in healthcare for 20+ years. I've been on the collecting side of many bills, it's a good book for patients. Contrary to popular belief most hospital systems are not evil profit seeking corpratons but just trying to keep the lights on, it's still a business though and as a patient you have the right a…

To be fair, when you see these giant corporations buy up every private medical practice from one side of the state to the other it’s hard not to see them as evil and profit seeking.

When you walk into the lobby of the hospital and it’s guilded with marble floors, vaulted ceilings, and chandeliers with large spacious “offices” for the billing departments, it’s hard not to see them as evil and profit seeking.

When you can’t get a straight answer out of anyone at the facility regarding cost of a simple procedure, it’s hard not to see them as evil and profit seeking.

When you see the executives of these hospitals wining and dining with the insurance executives then suddenly next year your premiums and deductibles get raised, it’s hard not to see them as evil and profit seeking.

Do I think that all medical professionals are evil and profit seeking? No. Do I think that many of them are content to live under an umbrella of plausible deniability as long as their paychecks increase? Absolutely.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#106

Don't let yourself get caught up in these details. The problem is the unreformed healthcare system; these are just more symptoms of it. It's like the old, failing server at work - people say the problem is the power supply, the outdated driver, etc. - it's not; the problem is we haven't installed a new server. We all can see the US healthcare system is awful. If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you.…

The absolutely best (and most impactful) thing you can do as an individual is to _not pay the damn debt_ to the hospital. The illusion of impact by writing to your congressman is really just that, a proverbial carrot in front of the donkey of democracy.

> The illusion of impact by writing to your congressman is really just that, a proverbial carrot in front of the donkey of democracy.

This is the hopelessness I'm talking about in the GP. It was edgy and clever to despair, but it's really for losers. Let's get serious; people are dying, democracy is dying; our predecessors managed to achieve great things and there's no excuse for us to sit on the sidelines and whine.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#107
post #87

Don't let yourself get caught up in these details. The problem is the unreformed healthcare system; these are just more symptoms of it. It's like the old, failing server at work - people say the problem is the power supply, the outdated driver, etc. - it's not; the problem is we haven't installed a new server. We all can see the US healthcare system is awful. If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you.…

One can blame politicians and corporations all they like, but the simple fact is that >50% of the country (and significantly more than that when accounting for skewed political representation) does not want the system to change, because to them any alternative is "socialism".

> >50% of the country (and significantly more than that when accounting for skewed political representation) does not want the system to change, because to them any alternative is "socialism".

As I said, if we can't overcome that absolutely weak, absurd argument, the problem is us (and many others). Let's get to work and stop talking like victims.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#108
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not seeing these bills would be incredible. Having them all covered in the same way would be fantastic. Instead, for us, states need to enact surprise billing laws since each provider can mysteriously be out-of-network despite working within a hospital that is in-network. The in-network concept is complete bullshit to start with, but then you have to have complete documentation of every person involved in whatever ca…

This is what infuriates me the most about healthcare in the US. I give someone my card, they enter the numbers with no indication of whether or not everything will be covered by insurance (they assume you just know). Then, a month later, I receive a bill indicating a routine procedure that I assumed out of ignorance was covered by insurance (since they took my card and entered the numbers without saying anything to t…

It’s actually even worse. If you (or the Dr’s) could reliably tell how it was even going to be coded (aka categorized/identified) in the system in advance, it would already be a huge step up.

Then you’d only have a handful of different prices you might have to pay.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#109

Don't let yourself get caught up in these details. The problem is the unreformed healthcare system; these are just more symptoms of it. It's like the old, failing server at work - people say the problem is the power supply, the outdated driver, etc. - it's not; the problem is we haven't installed a new server. We all can see the US healthcare system is awful. If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you.…

> The politicians against healthcare reform are well-known Who are they specifically?

The answer is the majority of the Republican party and their electorate, but just saying that will get you a barrage of downvotes on HN and other similar forums.

We get the system we deserve..

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#110
post #55

This seems like a good thread to mention the book "Never Pay The First Bill" by journalist Marshall Allen. I've worked in healthcare for 20+ years. I've been on the collecting side of many bills, it's a good book for patients. Contrary to popular belief most hospital systems are not evil profit seeking corpratons but just trying to keep the lights on, it's still a business though and as a patient you have the right a…

Except you're tone deaf trivializing systemic evil as a banal "business misunderstanding". I was roadtripping through Redding, CA several years back. While in line at a coffee, I ran across a young lady with a nasal infusion pump tube taped to her face arranging some paperwork. After chatting, she informed me she had Stage IV cancer and the hospitals and doctors were coming after her for every cent she had while she…

> This is what happens when for-profit health insurance and hospitals are allowed to exist because every other sensible advanced economy in the world has universal healthcare

Many of those universal systems have for-profit insurance and for-profit hospitals too.

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