Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 149 posts

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#101

Post by sockaddr »

FireBeyond wrote: post #93
jillesvangurp wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The update will add new, more prominent visual alerts and checks for the Autosteer function, which is part of Autopilot. Nothing was actually broken but regulators just insist on more alerts and Tesla just implemented those and is rolling them out with a routine software update. But that's a less dramatic headline. Actual recalls are less frequent unless there is a hardware problem like the wheels falling of a toyo…

This is a very biased reading of things. "Tesla recall: nothing actually broken" "Other manufacturer recalls: wheels falling off" If I look at the recalls for my cars, they're far more mundane. "A passenger detection module may not detect a passenger. The vehicle will automatically deploy air bags in that seat position". "The passenger side camera may get foggy in cold weather". And I don't think throwing shade at To…

Yup

A bad if/else is equivalent to a broken physical part if it controls a physical part.

Also, these OTAs have a habit of breaking other things on my car along the way. It's just slop all the way through.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#102

Post by suoduandao3 »

kristofferR wrote: post #4
ekianjo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gotta love the NYT for accurate headlines

It's not incorrect, it's just confusing: https://cleantechnica.com/2022/07/24/is-recall-really-the-ri...

"Technically correct - the best kind"

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#104

Post by strofcon »

electrondood wrote: post #51
itsoktocry wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and then this term will no longer be usable for clickbait article titles. It's not clickbait, that's ridiculous. The essence of the article is the results of the investigation. NHSTA has a process, they investigated and issued a recall. The fact that it can be fixed OTA doesn't change the intent of what's happening. I mean, at what point does the first comment stop being, "It's not a recall!" Who cares. I'm more in…

It is clickbait. Tesla hasn't "recalled" 2M vehicles, they're pushing a software patch. "Recall" is specifically jargon. It's a regulatory action. However (and this is precisely why this headline is clickbait) it has an alternate, more common meaning to the general population, which is "your car has a defective part, is unreliable, and needs to be brought in to have that part replaced." This is a "recall" the same wa…

"your car has a defective part, *is unreliable*, and needs to be brought in to have that part replaced.".

Precisely! NHTSA determined that these vehicles are unreliable in this specific case, and thus need fixing. Glad we're on the same page. :-)

(I know, you want to pretend that it only ever means "physical repair" in everyone's mind, but that's a pretty big projection on your part.)

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#105

Post by nickthegreek »

NickM wrote: post #96
nickthegreek wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline is perfectly clear and is not using language in a new way. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issues recalls for safety related issues. The way the manufacture resolves the issues can differ.

Sure, you're technically correct, but when the average person reads "recall" they typically assume something very different. Doubly so since this isn't even a bug fix, just a new requirement to add additional safety checks above and beyond the ones already there. There's no reason the headline couldn't have read something like "Tesla Issues Software Update at Request of NHTSA", which would be less likely to confuse t…

The average person can learn what the term means when they get the notification in the mail from Tesla (which will state that there is a recall and it will be handled by an OTA update). Or they could read the article and not rely on the headline to get their full understanding of the issue. If the average user panics from the headline... good. This is a safety issue and they should be made aware of it.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#106

Post by strofcon »

LoganDark wrote: post #103

Updates, not recalls. A software update shouldn't be called a recall.

It should when it's required by the NHTSA and comes along with mandatory reporting, notification, and deadline obligations, along with optional free on-site execution of the fix.

That's what makes it a recall. A software update is the mechanism, the recall is the "Tesla did something wrong and is being held accountable" part.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#107

Post by strofcon »

syngrog66 wrote: post #71

in other news the world's 50 billion-ish Linux, Windows and Apple devices have also all been "recalled" hundreds of times in the last few years alone

I too enjoy putting "quotes" around a word to make it seem like it means the thing I want to pretend it means, instead of engaging honestly with the actual situation. :-)

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#108

Post by contravariant »

vorticalbox wrote: post #82
sidcool wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I commented on a post on X stating about the recall. I said that it's an OTA. But many people said technically it's a recall.

Is it? I don't see android "recalling" android devices every update.

Android is not the agent there. A phone manufacturer could and should recall devices they send out if they turn out to have some serious flaw.

It's fine if they can push the update remotely, but if it's something that warrants a recall they should at least check with everyone that they managed to install the update.

Of course by now we've accepted security bugs as just the normal state of things, so it's hard to think of something serious enough to warrant a recall. An overheating battery perhaps, assuming it can be solved with a software update.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#110

Post by strofcon »

spiderice wrote: post #90
moolcool wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term is rightfully loaded, and it is being used correctly. The hazard being an OTA patchable software issue doesn't soften the risk, so why soften the language?

Because having one word mean two different things is less clear than having two words that mean two different things.

Except that the word, "recall", doesn't have two different meanings. It literally means the same thing here as it does for a recall wherein a Jeep has to have its shifter replaced / tweaked / whatever.

Just so happens that the latter can't be fixed via software, because it's not a software-based safety failure.

The former is fixable via software update, because it is a software-based safety failure.

Both, however, are safety failures. Both need to be fixed. Both situations incurred regulatory requirements to notify customers and provide a timely fix at no cost to affected customers, whether within or without the vehicle's warranty.

In short: both are recalls, and recall means the same thing in both cases: notify, fix, or face regulatory consequences.

Post reply on HN