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Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

especiales.eldiario.es

101–110 of 457 posts

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#101
post #97

Spain also has the lowest fertility rate in Europe at 1.28. Not sure how much apartment living is cause or effect on that but it's a grim number. Every generation is only 60% the size of the one that came before it.

That was shocking so had to look it up, and it seems to be true.

UN article on it here: https://www.un.org/en/development/desa/population/events/pdf...

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#102

Condos are absolutely atrocious, inhuman way of living. If I could I would move to a villa or a suburb house.

By condo you mean apartment right? Condos are usually just apartments you own.

Apartments are not inherently bad. They allow for density which, if you went through the tour this site provides, you know allows for cheaper public services. I've lived in many great apartments and a few bad ones. It's not the style of building that's bad, it's the owners and the laws they are forced to or not forced to follow.

Suburbs are _heavily_ subsidized. They require a ton of money from taxpayers to sustain their existence. So much so that many North American cities are essentially permanently in a state of insolvency because they can't sustain the infrastructure needed for suburbs. Think about this, for a suburb you have inherently more roads and more distance to cover for things like sewers, power/cable lines, water mains, etc. Plus you just take up more space so suburbs don't tend to be walkable in terms of productive travel. You can walk your dog in a suburb, but if you need groceries you'll be driving. So you pay more for suburbs even if you don't live in them AND they require you to pay for a car which depending on circumstances can total a few thousand dollars a year, especially if you don't have the money to drop on a car that doesn't require a lot of maintenence.

As mentioned in this website, suburbs should always be considered a luxury. The vast majority of people should live in more dense areas. It's better for the environment, personal finances, city economies, physical and social health (ever wonder why Europeans live longer?), etc. If you want to live in a suburb, good for you! But I believe we should fully stop subsidizing them. Start making suburb communities compensate cities financially for the imbalance they impose on our systems.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norwegians are also some of those most quiet people I've ever met.

Not disagreeing with your point but I’d like to support what the op said regarding “modern” buildings often having excellent sound deadening. My previous Dutch residence also had those “fake” (non concrete) walls but I couldn’t hear others in their rooms even when they played loud music (and they had different nationalities). But if no effort goes into soundproofing, it can be unsurprisingly pretty bad.

Yeah, before living where I live now, I lived for a while in an building from the late 1800s. The smaller units were of course added cheaply in modern times, and didn't align well with how it was originally built.

One example is the original thick wooden beams that was the floor went through the unit walls. So they same piece of wood I was walking on was also being walked on by the neighbors. That was a great transmission of vibrations, especially when their kid were playing on the floor hehe.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#104

Condos are absolutely atrocious, inhuman way of living. If I could I would move to a villa or a suburb house.

Try living in a damp victorian house in Bimingham, with unfixable mould problems, where the floor has 6 carpets from 6 generations stacked on top of each-other and the bathroom is all weired because originally toilet was designed to be outside.

That's like half of UK housing.

The people who would rather live in an old 50 sqm house than a modern apartment must be abusing some serious substances

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in northern ireland in an actual house and the walls are thin enough I could dip my bread into my neighbours' soup. It is the number one reason I could never see myself living in an apartment, I'm very sensitive to noise and I get disproportionately angry at even low levels of unwanted noise. I'd be too worried about noise from neighbours.

I live in a modern apartment in Norway (2019). I guess some of our heat insulation demands make it so that we get extra thick walls and floors, but I've never heard any noise from neighbors. No tv sounds, no stamping feet etc. Maybe twice a year someone drills a hole to mount something on the walls and I hear that for a few minutes. Even have a train passing by outside I can't hear with the windows closed. Point bein…

Having stayed in Norwegian houses many times, I can attest they've really sorted their insulation out. Similarily my Swedish sister-in-law always complains about British houses when she visits, saying their cold and draughty

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#106
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just curious- why did you opt for a place that is so out of sync w what matters to you ?

Not OP, but there's so many general reasons someone buys this place: - They didn't opt for the place, someone else in their family did - This is where the jobs were - What matters to them changed over time - The place changed over time - A lot of things matter to them, this is just one, and the place delivers on the others - When they were looking for a place, this was what was available - etc.

Yes, most of those apply in some form/fashion to current set-up.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#107

I'm okay with these high rises so I can enjoy the quiet tranquility of rural Spain. Everytime we do stay in an apartment in Spain the lack of sound proofing really stands out. Perhaps even more so because everything is tiled, no carpets.

I live in northern ireland in an actual house and the walls are thin enough I could dip my bread into my neighbours' soup. It is the number one reason I could never see myself living in an apartment, I'm very sensitive to noise and I get disproportionately angry at even low levels of unwanted noise. I'd be too worried about noise from neighbours.

I lived in flats in the New Town of Edinburgh (i.e. fairly old buildings) for ~30 years and never heard a sound from neighbours - probably because the walls appeared to be ~1m thick sandstone!

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#108
post #57

Americans have a very skweed view of what apartment living is actually like, in part because the construction of such buildings in America (outside of the ultra-luxury market) is generally terrible. Lumber is abundant in North America and cheap so everything is timber-framed, which is awful for noise. I actually do not understand how people can live in two-story houses in the US. Such people complaining about noise s…

Spaniard living in the US here. I grew up in apartment complexes and don’t ever remember worrying about noise. I think there’s definitely a component of just being used to it. Agree with your point on construction materials in the US, in relation to noise levels: the only time in my life that I was bothered by my loud neighbors was when I lived in a multi-family home unit in San Mateo, CA. It was a 4-unit home and I could literally hear all my neighbors whereabouts 24/7.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#109
post #97

Spain also has the lowest fertility rate in Europe at 1.28. Not sure how much apartment living is cause or effect on that but it's a grim number. Every generation is only 60% the size of the one that came before it.

Does it take in account population age ? Spain absorbs a lot of European elderly that decide to retire in Spain.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The feasibility of widespread bike usage doesn't just depend on density. It depends a lot on a region's weather, too. Amsterdam, for example, happens to have weather that's relatively compatible with biking, all throughout the year. On the other hand, for four to six months of the year, most areas of Canada, and even a good portion of the US, definitely don't. While a very small handful of people can handle biking wh…

Even in perfect conditions there's a lot of reasons not to bike. Distances are more difficult, you can't bring someone with you, your carrying capacity is much smaller for shopping trips. It also just plain takes longer to get anywhere and people just don't like spending more time than they have to on errands.

- Ebikes let you cover great distances with little effort.

- You can have someone ride on the backseat or in the cargo space of a cargo bike. [1]

- You'd be hard pressed to come up with a shopping load that won't fit on a cargo bike. [1]

Then there's the cost vs a car [2], which will likely make up for any inconvenience.

Of course, you do need at least decent bike infrastructure for this to be realistic.

[1]: https://youtu.be/rQhzEnWCgHA?t=470

[2]: https://youtu.be/rQhzEnWCgHA?t=321

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