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LARPing and Violent Extremism

leb.fbi.gov

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Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#101

Post by falcolas »

georgeecollins wrote: post #53
Jensson wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just courts, these are for police officers in general, they say it near the top "which may be helpful to both law enforcement and prosecutors if suspects of targeted violence claim they were playacting". These standards will likely make officers go after more genuine LARPers than before. These tips are very problematic if police officers start to follow them, for example: > Role players will not discuss law…

I agree with the top post that the title confused me. But reading the article I came away with a very different take than you. This person is trying to define the difference between LARPing and being terrorist. That may be obvious to someone who knows LARPers, but not everyone does. I really don't think that the police are going to be a problem for people in fantasy gear, cosplaying, or re-enacting a historical battl…

> But LARPing shouldn't be an excuse for people who want to don real tactical gear and weapons and plan mayhem.

Just saw a video talking a bit facetiously about this. The question is, "What's the difference between Paintball and LARPing?"

Dressing up and using made-up names and speaking specialized terminology and engaging in make-believe combat...

They decided there is no difference. (This could just as easily be airsoft or paint markers for regular guns, to be clear.)

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#102

Post by falcolas »

shmde wrote: post #41

> In the modern era, as extreme beliefs (e.g., anti-government or anti-law enforcement movements) Fbi quietly putting psyops telling anti- government is extreme belief lmao.

It always has been for the FBI. They have long treated any outspoken anti-establishment or anti-authority with suspicion and - especially when combined with a minority race - hostility.

See how they treated anybody who believe socialism was good back in the cold war days. How they kept detailed files on people who spoke against the powers held by the authorities.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#104

Post by gremlinsinc »

Jensson wrote: post #54
parsimo2010 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they need to provide a reference for when FBI agents in the future have to decide of someone is harmless or not. While this is available publicly, the audience is mostly law enforcement officers and possibly prosecutors. Many law enforcement officers have no familiarity with fantasy hobbies or war reenactment. Pointing out that LARPers use fake weapons and operate in the open is a good thing to point out. It’…

> Pointing out that LARPers use fake weapons and operate in the open is a good thing to point out So you think it is fine to investigate people who play around on their private property for terrorism just because they don't want you watching? To me that seems very scary and oppressive.

if they post images and such providing evidence that they're plotting and have real weapons, if they're plotting the assassination of Lincoln using fake civil war weapons not so much, one clear distinction is members of a larp would only ever talk about police and govt if a real legit LARPer were having some criminal issue valid or not.

Terrorists will seem wary or apprehensive or even combative in regards to police and govt, and have real weapons involved. They might even mention on social media derogatory remarks towards actual living people, LARPers may trash talk at Lord Farquad of The kingdom of Shrek but that's not the same as plotting to kidnap a govt official.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#105

Post by TFortunato »

Tao3300 wrote: post #20
kr0bat wrote: post #10

They used the term LARP a lot more literally than I expected. Although the history of LARP as a legal defense is narrow, the authors share the concern that it may soon become commonplace. Early attempts at such a strategy have been made by a defendant acting alone or in loose cooperation with members of a fantasy group who knew each other only in the virtual world, claiming “artistic expression” to excuse threatening…

> users pretend to have fantasies about taking officer's service weapon. Why is this a trend...

Video related: https://twitter.com/ColdOnes/status/1705957381870612837?t=MX...

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#106

Post by pseudalopex »

lelandbatey wrote: post #4

Some key context, provided if you read the article, is that this exists to outline the difference between LARPing and Violent Extremism, especially as some violent extremists have claimed that their plans of violence were only "LARPing" and not bona-fide terrorism. The exact differences they point out, such as "spectators being welcome" vs "secrecy is paramount" are clear, universal, well thought out, and interesting…

The article had many good points. But many claims about LARP were not universal or not clear. Some performances are private. Some LARP is solo. The article acknowledged small groups but the table did not. People in many hobbies discuss law enforcement concerns, guidance to each other if confronted by an officer, and criminal cases where the hobby is mentioned. Role players have confirmation bias like other people. Some theatrical presentations have real antagonists.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#107

Post by catlover76 »

TheJoeMan wrote: post #68
crazygringo wrote: post #24

I was definitely confused by this article at first, thinking it was some silly guide for law enforcement which can't tell the difference between criminals and LARPers...?? But no -- it's actually about terrorists and criminals trying to claim in court that their criminal planning wasn't that at all, but just LARPing: > For example, after Kaleb Franks was arrested in October 2020 for plotting to abduct Michigan Govern…

To add a counterpoint, that specific example is really a poor choice to get the point across. It’s been established ( https://www.insider.com/kidnapping-conspiracy-whitmer-fbi-in... ) that the Whitmer plot was run by the FBI itself, in a way having agents LARPing as terrorists. Also, I would hope the real LARPing community can feel safe enough to share tips on what to do if they run into police while running around t…

Nothing has been "established" except that a number of those involved got convicted. It's silly to think the FBI can force people to commit crimes they had no desire to commit.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#108

Post by catlover76 »

ethbr1 wrote: post #44
crazygringo wrote: post #24

I was definitely confused by this article at first, thinking it was some silly guide for law enforcement which can't tell the difference between criminals and LARPers...?? But no -- it's actually about terrorists and criminals trying to claim in court that their criminal planning wasn't that at all, but just LARPing: > For example, after Kaleb Franks was arrested in October 2020 for plotting to abduct Michigan Govern…

The blatant lying that law enforcement has to deal with on a daily basis is uderappreciated. The US has a legal system that permits a defendant to say many things, like "My buddies and I were participating in a fantasy scenario where we plotted in detail and collected supplies to kidnap the governor of our state... but it was just a game. Like those other people who play games!" Good for the authors in making an effo…

To be clear, law enforcement can also lie during the course of investigations, etc. Pretty much all the way up to the stand.

I'm not opining whether that's a good rule or not, just wanted to be clear that this is also a rule within the US legal system.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#109

Post by 1letterunixname »

I had to scratch my head for a moment to see if it was an April Fools' joke (it was posted 4 days later).

Regular police investigative techniques can disambiguate intent of (an) individual(s) by searching their items and questioning their plans. Someone LARPing isn't going to play act with live ordinance, contagious pathogens, or actual firearms. They may well carry swords, but then they'd also be wearing padded armor. I think it's up to a judge or jury to decide if the Free Staters of Terrorism were committing terrorism or not in highly-suspicious, ambiguous circumstances.

Leaping to the deep-end of paranoia about mostly innocent play would create a society with a corrosive, suspicious attitude.

Now an awful thought: Although it seems a weird and terrible idea, I could imagine a group of kids going somewhere hopefully unoccupied and unlikely to be patrolled by police LARPing as terrorists, school shooters, or any other taboo archetype.

For the record, a dying (and now late) friend of mine was once violently arrested in a parking lot for playing Ingress in Los Altos, CA.

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