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Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

theguardian.com

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Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#101

Post by safety1st »

don-code wrote: post #82

I developed a pathological need to monitor Slack at all hours. It was largely based on the culture at my company (a startup, at the time) - while there was no written rule to install Slack on your phone, responding to Slack messages at 10pm was clearly a way to get ahead at the company. I switched jobs and continued to run Slack on my phone, as everybody seems to do. Some time in 2021, I got a new phone and just... d…

So I run a remote-first company and our team is all over the globe. We had some people (including me) who had this issue at one point.

I solved it by establishing two expectations:

1) No one is expected to be on Slack outside of their work hours. Full stop, pretty much.

2) Everyone must provide their personal mobile number to the company. They're all stored in an "emergency directory" (it's just a Google Doc). If there's an urgent emergency which can't wait until someone starts their next workday, you are allowed to call this number to reach them.

In five years there's been one call through that emergency system, I think it was a big customer getting hacked.

There have been many times where people just routed around the issue, like, "Oh, XYZ won't be available for the next 12 hours, I will talk to ABC instead and tell the stakeholder that I'll be able to get the expert engaged tomorrow" and it all worked out fine. Never been a big deal from what I've seen.

We lost half our revenue in a very short period of time during Covid - it didn't trigger a call. Why should it have? Very bad news, but learning about it at 10pm wasn't going to improve anything. People all got a good night's sleep and then woke up and saw the terrible news in the morning, probably for the best because they were refreshed and relatively prepared to deal with it.

Could you argue we're overall less responsive as a company because of this? Maybe but I don't think so, we haven't had customer complaints which would point to this. On the contrary we get customer feedback that our people thoroughly attentive to their needs. (Even with our customers we are clear up front about everyone's availability hours.) I do know that nobody is an anxiety zombie, and our people seem to be quite good at making rational and clear-headed decisions all the time, our company culture felt more panic-driven and knee-jerk before I instituted these rules. I'm pretty sure that allowing people to be totally unplugged for 16 hours a day if they want makes them better performers during the 8 when they're on the clock.

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#102

Post by WalterBright »

RoyalHenOil wrote: post #96
WalterBright wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ill I usually preface my comments on this topic with legal adults of sound mind and body. > poor The millions walking over the border have nothing, but they see opportunity in the US.

I think you have a quite limited understanding of the funds and planning that go into crossing the border, and also how effectively people who make that crossing solve other issues in their lives. My brother-in-law's family crossed the border illegally out of dire necessity. However, they still have many others issues (managing money, working for awful bosses, living in crappy housing, family in-fighting, unhappy mar…

> I think you have a quite limited understanding of the funds and planning that go into crossing the border, and also how effectively people who make that crossing solve other issues in their lives.

And yet they managed to do it. They could and did move to where there's more opportunity.

> but it does not mean they have solved all of their problems

Nobody solves all their problems. But they can prioritize, make a plan, and knock them down one at a time. Success isn't instant, either.

Or do nothing and remain a victim.

America was populated by Europeans arriving here with nothing. They worked their way into the middle class and the rich. The American West was populated by people walking across the continent. It's still happening today. People have choices.

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#103

Post by wand3r »

stevage wrote: post #68
wand3r wrote: post #12

This article was a tough read because of the meandering prose and weird personalization narrative they shoe-horned in. > We could, for example, force social media companies to abandon their current business model Cool that the Guardian flew this person to like 3 different locations for the story. Great conclusion. We could also solve poverty by giving everyone high paying jobs... Tristan Harris is referenced in the a…

That's not a good analogy. We actually could do this, in the same way that society has banned various other categories of harmful products. The business model of slave plantation is another one that society got rid of.

Point ceded on the analogy. The point I was trying to make is that the only solution was a flippant suggestion that we just "ask social media companies to change their business model". Leaving aside how difficult of a proposition that is, it would have extremely negative knock-on effects. These companies are roughly 50% of the S&P 500 top 10.

> The business model of slave plantation is another one that society got rid of.

Ya I mean 655K people died fixing that issue[1]

I admit I am being unfair here, but the trend of "identifying" an obvious and well known problem and writing an article about it, really frustrates me. We KNOW climate change[2] is a problem, we KNOW social media is bad, we KNOW that housing/living costs in much of the world are unaffordable for generations of people. I would appreciate at least exploring the surface area of what a real solution could be.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualt...

[2] Those that do not accept climate change still recognize that our key fuel inputs are finite resources. Thus we still need to make changes to prevent foreign wars, increased pricing and maintaining global progress.

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#104

Post by latency-guy2 »

sph wrote: post #61
WalterBright wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I specifically wrote it wasn't easy.

The "it isn't easy" is the bloody important part that none of your slogans touch upon, so they're not even worth the memory they're stored in. There is no insight to be gained from any of them. Or do you truly believe that people with hardship in their lives are so hopelessly stupid that they don't know they will have to put some effort, instead of sitting around crying over themselves? Come on now.

> Or do you truly believe that people with hardship in their lives are so hopelessly stupid that they don't know they will have to put some effort, instead of sitting around crying over themselves? Come on now.

I don't think that's what Bright said. Unless you're the type of person to say never take risks, because chances are you'll fail. If the world was filled to the brim with that type, then what's the point in living?

Don't tell me you actually believe in that.

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#105

Post by latency-guy2 »

underlipton wrote: post #51

There seem to be a lot of comments cluck-clucking about personal responsibility, and government intervention is bad, and the way this is written is off-putting, and- And no acknowledgment about how many on here can't really give an unqualified opinion because of where their paychecks originate. I can, though, and here it is: We've done this before, with cigarette companies, treating them with kid gloves and trying to…

Let's get down to it, ban all the hazards, moral or otherwise.

Lets start with taxing porn at 50%, on both ends. Anyone overweight? Slap them with a $7500 fine per pound over the limit, based solely on BMI because that is the only measure that congress can agree is general enough for all citizens. Jail everyone who even thinks about smoking. Alcohol? Well, well, prohibition 2.0, drink once, get sterilized.

You need to make a decision: are you going to continue building a livelihood off the suffering of your neighbors, and your family? Or are we going to do something about this, collectively?

Cluck cluck.

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#106

Post by weregiraffe »

latency-guy2 wrote: post #105
underlipton wrote: post #51

There seem to be a lot of comments cluck-clucking about personal responsibility, and government intervention is bad, and the way this is written is off-putting, and- And no acknowledgment about how many on here can't really give an unqualified opinion because of where their paychecks originate. I can, though, and here it is: We've done this before, with cigarette companies, treating them with kid gloves and trying to…

Let's get down to it, ban all the hazards, moral or otherwise. Lets start with taxing porn at 50%, on both ends. Anyone overweight? Slap them with a $7500 fine per pound over the limit, based solely on BMI because that is the only measure that congress can agree is general enough for all citizens. Jail everyone who even thinks about smoking. Alcohol? Well, well, prohibition 2.0, drink once, get sterilized. You need t…

Sure, just convince enough people and you can make all these come true. Isn't democracy great?

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#107

Post by smoldesu »

safety1st wrote: post #101
don-code wrote: post #82

I developed a pathological need to monitor Slack at all hours. It was largely based on the culture at my company (a startup, at the time) - while there was no written rule to install Slack on your phone, responding to Slack messages at 10pm was clearly a way to get ahead at the company. I switched jobs and continued to run Slack on my phone, as everybody seems to do. Some time in 2021, I got a new phone and just... d…

So I run a remote-first company and our team is all over the globe. We had some people (including me) who had this issue at one point. I solved it by establishing two expectations: 1) No one is expected to be on Slack outside of their work hours. Full stop, pretty much. 2) Everyone must provide their personal mobile number to the company. They're all stored in an "emergency directory" (it's just a Google Doc). If the…

That's a really nice solution. I'm not sure if everyone would be on the same page handing in their personal cell number like that, but I'd consider it 'problem solved'.

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#108

Post by FranzFerdiNaN »

WalterBright wrote: post #48
Aurornis wrote: post #23

All of these supposed revelations that companies try to make products that people will use were supposed to empower people to break free from these addictions Yet anecdotally, these narrative seem to give people more excuses to engage further with their addictions of choice. I’ve heard so many variations of “It’s not my fault I use so much (Facebook|TikTok|Reddit), don’t you know they have people employed to make the…

In our modern society, everyone is a victim and it's always someone else's fault. My opinion that people in America do have choices and their lives are the sum of those choices inevitably elicits a lot of rather angry responses. All the people I've gotten to know over the years are all where they are as a result of their choices. The interesting thing about deciding to own your choices is it's empowering - you can ch…

Ah yes, people just stopped taking personal responsibility these last forty years, resulting in an obesity epidemic and mass addiction to phones and social media. Makes total sense. Just have some more willpower!

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#109

Post by FranzFerdiNaN »

brigadier132 wrote: post #33
tastyfreeze wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just addictions. The kids I have coached that have the worst behavior always blame their mistakes and behavior on anything but themselves. Zero personal responsibily.

Agreed, the words personal responsibility are frowned upon nowadays since our priority is comfort and 0 judgement. You can choose whether to believe you are in control or choose not to. If you choose not to dont be surprised when you fail to achieve your goals.

Ah yes just choose it. Like you can just choose to be rich. Just do X or Y! Easy!

Good god, so many people here are basically being manifestation coaches. “Just believe you are rich and the universe will make sure you are!”.

Re: Attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen (2022)

#110

Post by bornfreddy »

generic92034 wrote: post #64
cptroot wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One point that the article did land for me was the potential for individual change to be unhelpful. No-phone dinners only work if there isn't any sense of anxiety about not having your phone at dinner. That anxiety only goes away if you have an environment that allows you to unplug. Systemic changes like requiring workplaces to allow employees to have "off times" seem necessary to remove some of the baseline anxietie…

> That anxiety only goes away if you have an environment that allows you to unplug. Systemic changes like requiring workplaces to allow employees to have "off times" seem necessary to remove some of the baseline anxieties many of us have. Are there really so many employers requiring employees to be permanently on-call? I would only consider working in such an environment if they would be paying enough to retire in a…

This. And do they really expect employees to answer e-mails outside of working hours? To me e-mail is "slow" communication - if you need an answer right now, use a different channel.
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