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What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

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Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#101

Post by sundvor »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #65
shakow wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a stupid question, but why can't these lost pilots just maintain their attitude indicator in the middle, fly straight, grit their teeth, and wait to get out of the cloud?

Not at all stupid! Very real question that's been asked by aviation safety agencies around the world for decades! Sometimes there are genuine issues with instruments. As well, note that most GA airplanes operate their crucial instruments and gyros via vacuum pump and they need to be re-calibrated after a while even in regular flight. But I believe much more frequently, inexperienced humans distrust their instruments…

Not a real pilot, have never piloted a real plane, but I love my sims and have put considerable resources into building my aluminium profile simrig.

I was practicing increasingly denser fog/low visibility ILS landings of the F-16 in DCS, on my TrackIR'd 32"x3 triple screen sim rig (with transducers for buffeting sensations etc).

With triples (and much more so with VR, I'll transition to a Crystal "soon") you do develop a semi/meta(?)-"physical" connection with the sim after a while.

At a point visibility got so reduced I would completely experience vertigo. Even though I told myself it's only a sim, just look at the instruments (and the F-16 has so many, including HUD with the ILS glidescope), my head would spin out and I'd completely bork the landing.

Only after several more hours was I able to do it (with visibility so bad that the runway would only pop out when right on top of it metres from the ground). It would take a lot more to get comfortable with it, but by that point I had enough and - I still have nightmares about it. :)

Can completely understand how cloud based vertigo in a real plane with your life on the line has killed and will continue to kill so many. Mad respect to the real pilots here who have mastered this.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#102

Post by BWStearns »

mschuster91 wrote: post #50
quasarj wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying into a cloud is a big risk? They're everywhere!

Here in Germany, if you don't have an IFR (instrument flight rules) rating, you're not allowed to fly through clouds, because if you're not trained in using avionics or the plane doesn't have them in the first place, you are very very likely to kill yourself, your passengers and people on the ground. If you encounter unexpected clouds, you are supposed to GTFO... if you try to fly "under" the clouds, you may end up f…

https://www.cfidarren.com/r-178dissected.htm

Broad Points:

1. The study was done in 1954, not 1991. 2. The AI, DG and VSI were covered. 3. The subjects had received NO prior instrument training whatsoever, typical for private pilots of that time period. 4. The study was performed in a real airplane, a Bonanza. None of the students had ever flown a complex high-performance aircraft prior to the study.

Yes, flying IMC as a non IFR pilot is dangerous, but the video/study is misleading. I can't find the original source for 86% but I'd bet anything that a PPLs today would not die 86% of the time if they flew into IMC, I suspect they mean it was fatal in 86% of the cases where there was an incident.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#103

Post by dclowd9901 »

qup wrote: post #59
mschuster91 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Germany, if you don't have an IFR (instrument flight rules) rating, you're not allowed to fly through clouds, because if you're not trained in using avionics or the plane doesn't have them in the first place, you are very very likely to kill yourself, your passengers and people on the ground. If you encounter unexpected clouds, you are supposed to GTFO... if you try to fly "under" the clouds, you may end up f…

> if you lose visual, you got 180 seconds to live on average Holy shit, why!? Are these planes crashing into the ground? It seems to me (an ignorant layman) that you would exit the clouds and have some time to regain control. I have no doubt that the planes are crashing, given the fatality rate, but why is it so unavoidable that they crash after entering clouds? Edit: found a little on the link referenced: " often en…

With no reference of up or down, a stall seems pretty likely.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#104

Post by dylan604 »

krisoft wrote: post #98
dylan604 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your kid discovered a crashed something and the people that operated the something didn't know it was missing gave your kid free time to fly/ride a thing just like it, would you let your kid go? But of course the kid was upset.

> and the people that operated the something didn't know it was missing This element is not present in the story as it is described. They were not aware of where the ultralight was, but they were aware that it was missing. It could have been stolen, or it could have been landed at some other location.

> This element is not present in the story as it is described.

Yes, I didn’t write the full history of the company. However, to fill in some details, the company ultimately closed after numerous incidents from being a company run by Kletus and his brother Kletus and his other brother Kletus (Daryl just doesn’t imply the same that Kletus does). I would say fly by night, it apparently they didn’t fly that well.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#105

Post by amluto »

Dalewyn wrote: post #85
grepfru_it wrote: post #73

Unpopular opinion but technically correct answer: you can fly any plane without a pilots license. In fact I just saw a Quora question with this exact question and the answer came from a 60 year old pilot that has been flying without a license for 30 years. If you never fly out of a major airport where an FAA inspector can ramp check you, who will ever find out? Please don’t do this.

In the same vein, the only reason you need a license is because you use publicly owned space. For a mundane example, consider your driver's license. You only need it because you drive on public roads and highways; a driver's license is a license stating you are competent enough to not ruin the shared public roads and highways. Likewise, a pilot's license is a license stating you are competent enough to not ruin the s…

> Hell, you probably don't even need to register that car.

In California at least, you are required to file for “planned non-operation”, which is inexpensive but not free.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#106

Post by all2 »

8note wrote: post #90
Dalewyn wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the same vein, the only reason you need a license is because you use publicly owned space. For a mundane example, consider your driver's license. You only need it because you drive on public roads and highways; a driver's license is a license stating you are competent enough to not ruin the shared public roads and highways. Likewise, a pilot's license is a license stating you are competent enough to not ruin the s…

It's kinda silly though, compared to driving, there's very little public space that somebody else would be using

You also need to consider what ground you're over. If you do this (and you definitely shouldn't) stick to airspace above uninhabited areas like national parks, BLM areas, etc.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#107

Post by repiret »

zzless wrote: post #34

Police in the US do not have to have a license to operate anything, including aircraft. In this case, insurance requirements take over though. They may have a legal right to fly but no insurance company would approve operation by anyone but a commercial pilot. I got a few hours in a local police Bell 206 because they needed a commercial pilot to fly while their official pilot only had a private license. Fun!

I call baloney. Do you have a citation for that?

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#108

Post by psunavy03 »

BWStearns wrote: post #102
mschuster91 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Germany, if you don't have an IFR (instrument flight rules) rating, you're not allowed to fly through clouds, because if you're not trained in using avionics or the plane doesn't have them in the first place, you are very very likely to kill yourself, your passengers and people on the ground. If you encounter unexpected clouds, you are supposed to GTFO... if you try to fly "under" the clouds, you may end up f…

https://www.cfidarren.com/r-178dissected.htm Broad Points: 1. The study was done in 1954, not 1991. 2. The AI, DG and VSI were covered . 3. The subjects had received NO prior instrument training whatsoever, typical for private pilots of that time period. 4. The study was performed in a real airplane, a Bonanza. None of the students had ever flown a complex high-performance aircraft prior to the study. Yes, flying IMC…

No one is saying a brief smidgen of inadvertent IFR is dangerous. Flying through puffies while cloud-surfing is not going to get you killed, and no one actually follows the FAA recommended cloud clearances anyway.

What IS going to kill a VFR-only pilot is things like scud-running under a marginal ceiling trying to press an airport because "I swear it can't be that bad based on the last PIREP and I have to meet Mom/Dad/spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend/buddies because X." Then they find out the ceiling IS that bad, they go inadvertent IMC, they freak out, and now we're off to the races. Maybe they wrap it up too tight trying to do a 180. Maybe they CFIT. Maybe they pop out again mid-turn and now they're lost AND freaked out.

One of the #1 rules of aviation is to KNOW YOUR LIMITS.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#109

Post by benjaminclark »

blt wrote: post #31

> You don’t need a license to operate these aircraft because they’re easy enough to fly that the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) doesn’t see the need to regulate them. I don't think that's the reason. The reason is that they are unlikely to hurt anyone besides the pilot in a crash. They can have an engine failure, stall-spin, or fly into a cloud just as readily as any other plane. Those are the biggest risks fo…

You are absolutely correct. The fact that this statement is made by a website holding itself out as an educational source is very disappointing.

Ultralight vehicles meeting these requirements (weight, single seater, etc.) are subject to NO airworthiness regulation by the FAA at all. So the FAA is making no statement on whether they are safe or easy to fly.

What these regulations mean is it is not a crime to fly something meeting these requirements (even if it was assembled by your crazy neighbor in their shed). That doesn't mean anyone would think it is a good idea, let alone the FAA.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#110

Post by psunavy03 »

qup wrote: post #59
mschuster91 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Germany, if you don't have an IFR (instrument flight rules) rating, you're not allowed to fly through clouds, because if you're not trained in using avionics or the plane doesn't have them in the first place, you are very very likely to kill yourself, your passengers and people on the ground. If you encounter unexpected clouds, you are supposed to GTFO... if you try to fly "under" the clouds, you may end up f…

> if you lose visual, you got 180 seconds to live on average Holy shit, why!? Are these planes crashing into the ground? It seems to me (an ignorant layman) that you would exit the clouds and have some time to regain control. I have no doubt that the planes are crashing, given the fatality rate, but why is it so unavoidable that they crash after entering clouds? Edit: found a little on the link referenced: " often en…

Not all aircraft have the full suite of instruments necessary to fly in instrument flight rules. When these aircraft go into the goo, the pilot doesn't have anything other than his/her senses to guide them. But senses are unreliable. What feels like "standing still" is actually just a 1G acceleration in any inertial frame of reference. Which means you could end up in the proverbial "graveyard spiral."

And if the cloud ceiling underneath you is low enough, by the time you realize this, you may not have enough time or maneuverability to recover. Also, in some areas of the country, clouds have been known to conceal large mountains and cliff faces, which are uniformly fatal to airplanes.

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