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Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

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Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#101

Post by grensley »

neom wrote: post #13

I still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this intervie…

I think it's that he doesn't feel enough power over remote workers.

Also Elon Musk accusing anyone of being in "La La Land" is hilarious.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#102

Post by js8 »

Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote: post #58
p0pcult wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody felt entitled to 5 day work weeks before the labor movement, either. So, when are you going back to 7 days in the office, friendo?

The government will punish me and the company if I do that. I am also forced to take my vacation. Even when the government says I can't go anywhere. I. Must. Not. Work.

If you're talking about labor laws, that is not true. They only specify that the employer cannot demand you to work 7 days a week, but you still can if you choose to (e.g. as a contractor).

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#103

Post by ok_dad »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #82
krainboltgreene wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of sentiment is both in tech and also in every other field that has or could have unionization, and it's never true.

You tell that to car manufacturers in Detroit.

That happened because Detroit manufacturers failed to keep up with quality and supply chain innovations, plus the lack of smaller cars during the energy crisis. Asian manufacturers ate Detroit’s lunch AND dinner, it wasn’t the evil unions screwing things up.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#104

Post by plagiarist »

operatingthetan wrote: post #97
LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pure speculation, but my guess is that he’s invested in the commercial real estate market and hoping for a turnaround. I don’t think it’s some profound or insane ideology he has, I think he’s just trying to prop up CRE like he does with crypto. He’s famous for buying distressed commercial properties and for gaslighting, it just makes sense and the whole moral argument was a great way to get people talking about it.

>Pure speculation, but my guess is that he’s invested in the commercial real estate market and hoping for a turnaround. I don’t think it’s some profound or insane ideology he has, I think he’s just trying to prop up CRE like he does with crypto. We should assume any public statements on morality from powerful people out of the blue are motivated by a secondary factor.

You don't even need that rule of thumb here. I believe Elon's very public tantrums on and regarding Twitter have shown that he lacks even basic integrity. The gall that he would discuss what is or is not moral from that position.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#105

Post by ydlr »

otterley wrote: post #79
LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no way that someone as wealthy as he doesn’t own at least some commercial property. Even if not himself, Tesla alone owns billions in CRE, not to mention his other companies. Commercial properties are some of the most valuable assets a company owns, of course the guy wants to keep CRE values up. Just because he owns some transportation companies doesn’t mean he’s allergic to CRE, that’s kinda naive. That’s li…

Counterpoint: Berkshire Hathaway owns practically no commercial real estate assets.

https://bhhspremiercre.com/

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#106

Post by kitsunesoba »

rossjudson wrote: post #99
neom wrote: post #13

I still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this intervie…

Farhad Manjoo wrote: "Office Workers Don’t Hate the Office. They Hate the Commute." That's true for a decent number of people...but definitely not all. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/19/opinion/elon-musk-remote-... And another thing -- the "morally wrong" is remarkably selective. Musk is clearly saying that it's "morally wrong" for white collar workers to be remote while insisting that blue collar workers be fully p…

The commute and the open office layout. If getting to the office doesn’t take a big bite out of my day and salary and I’m given an environment that makes me more productive than I am at home, I’m happy to go to the office.

That’s unusual, though. Usually getting to/from work takes at minimum of an hour (30m both ways), either due to traffic or from being pushed out way from where the office is located in order to be able to afford the rent/mortgage. You’re also usually stuck with an open office where maintaining focus for any period of time is impossible, as opposed to cubicles or private offices.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#107

Post by operatingthetan »

plagiarist wrote: post #104
operatingthetan wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Pure speculation, but my guess is that he’s invested in the commercial real estate market and hoping for a turnaround. I don’t think it’s some profound or insane ideology he has, I think he’s just trying to prop up CRE like he does with crypto. We should assume any public statements on morality from powerful people out of the blue are motivated by a secondary factor.

You don't even need that rule of thumb here. I believe Elon's very public tantrums on and regarding Twitter have shown that he lacks even basic integrity. The gall that he would discuss what is or is not moral from that position.

It must be some form of gaslighting for an obviously amoral person to make public announcements of moral platitudes. Why people agree with them is beyond me, is there perverse pleasure in being deeply wrong?

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#108

Post by kryogen1c »

neom wrote: post #13

I still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this intervie…

> but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong.

Are you? Have you tried seriously considering his position instead of watching 1 second sound bites OBVIOUSLY taken out of context?

> I was on a bicycle ride listening to this interview when he said it and I literally pulled my bike over and sat for a half hour or so thinking about what I think about the idea

Oh? This musk interview was the first time you learned about unfairness in the world? I'm glad he "got you thinking". Heh.

It is not some extreme, radical position that shutting down your company by staging a strike because you _deserve_ to work from the comfort of your own home is morally tenuous. You can disagree, but acting like musk is a raving lunatic for sympathizing with minimum wage workers who bus to work is nothing short of supreme stupidity.

Honestly the anti musk sentiment around here is so braindead and reactionary its beginning to feel like an astroturfed psyop.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#109

Post by marricks »

stuaxo wrote: post #74
neom wrote: post #13

I still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this intervie…

He owns a car company and wants people to use cars.

That is such an incredibly obvious take I somehow never thought of. Thanks!

Not to mention, his main consumer would be exactly that white collar worker who'd rather not drive to the office.

It's a sort of sick inversion of Henry Ford's

> "I want my employees to be able to buy my car"

to...

> "I want all employees to be forced to own one"

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#110

Post by polka_haunts_us »

kcplate wrote: post #95
superfrank wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has been proven that knowledge workers can work productively and efficiently without being required to be in the office a set number of days. I'm a big proponent of "I don't care where you work as long as your work gets done" and have been since before covid, but I haven't come across anything that actually proves that, so... source? If there's a good study out there that shows that that is true, I'd love to see…

It’s my opinion that people feel like they are more productive at WFH, but it’s a bit of a hard metric to actually measure. I get the sense that the freedom and flexibility might create a feeling of personal productivity to accomplish many things (not just career related) they couldn’t before WFH, but as for job productivity…I bet it’s probably a wash overall. I say this as a remote worker who wouldn’t want to RTO—be…

My first job was 40 hours a week in an office, my current job has been full WFH because of covid, transitioning into 3 days in the office. I can tell you factually that the days I'm actually at home in this hybrid setup that I'm way less productive in terms of getting my actual job done than I am days I'm in the office. I think when I was full WFH my at home productivity was actually much higher. However, the days I'm actually in office are way more productive than the average day at my previous job, and I'm pretty sure it's because of the low job productivity WFH days. I think return to office 5 days a week will lower my average in office productivity, resulting in approximate equal job productivity, and leave me less happy overall.
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