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Why northern Europe is so indebted (2021)

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Re: Why northern Europe is so indebted (2021)

#101

Post by yucky »

toast0 wrote: post #100
robomartin wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 80% of Norwegians OWN their primary dwelling I see your clarification. Question: In Norway, if you pay-off your mortgage, do you still owe annual taxes on your property? If so, how much? What happens if you don't pay property taxes? One of the things that has always bothered me about home "ownership" is that, from my perspective, at least in the US, you never really own your home. You can pay off your mortgage, of…

If all 50 US states came up with the same thing, it's probably hard to do significantly better. Many states have some method of limiting increases, which helps you budget for the future costs, as long as the rules don't change. Some states, I think Nevada is one, have a program where you can pay an actuarial estimate and be set for the rest of your life as long as you don't move. Many states have programs where you c…

  > Some states, I think Nevada is one, have a program where you can pay an actuarial estimate and be set for the rest of your life as long as you don't move.
It was referred to as "allodial title", and I believe the program only lasted for a few years, so unless you're grandfathered in you aren't eligible.

Re: Why northern Europe is so indebted (2021)

#102

Post by robomartin »

dataflow wrote: post #75
robomartin wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 80% of Norwegians OWN their primary dwelling I see your clarification. Question: In Norway, if you pay-off your mortgage, do you still owe annual taxes on your property? If so, how much? What happens if you don't pay property taxes? One of the things that has always bothered me about home "ownership" is that, from my perspective, at least in the US, you never really own your home. You can pay off your mortgage, of…

Note, the term you're looking for is "allodial title".

Learned something new. Thanks!

Re: Why northern Europe is so indebted (2021)

#103

Post by yucky »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #98
dataflow wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not nonsense, you just looked at the extreme case on the other side. You can try to make arguments like that for the "richest" people, but what about everyone else? Someone making $1 below the Medicaid income limit should pay a ton more in taxes than someone making $1 above it because they get back a lot more in return?

If they're benefiting so much, why are they poor? Clearly wealthier people are getting more benefit.

Does someone below the poverty level qualify for more government assistance than a middle class person?

Re: Why northern Europe is so indebted (2021)

#104

Post by robomartin »

B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #86
robomartin wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 80% of Norwegians OWN their primary dwelling I see your clarification. Question: In Norway, if you pay-off your mortgage, do you still owe annual taxes on your property? If so, how much? What happens if you don't pay property taxes? One of the things that has always bothered me about home "ownership" is that, from my perspective, at least in the US, you never really own your home. You can pay off your mortgage, of…

> If you own your property it should mean ... that you pay for the necessary law enforcement, justice, defense, etc. Why do you expect those to be free?

Typically a good idea to read the entire post before commenting.

I did not say anything about anything having to be free.

Since you brought it up. No, they are not free. We have to pay for them. My point is that I should be able to own my paid-off home. The government should not be able to take my property away because of taxes.

Payment for the services you mention should have no connection to home ownership. Everyone uses them. Everyone pays for them equally (with some consideration for low income individuals).

We need to stop thinking about taxing everything from farts to homes to pay for the running of society. Send everyone a bill on a monthly, quarterly or annual basis. We all pay for it. Don't tax my farts.

Re: Why northern Europe is so indebted (2021)

#105

Post by robomartin »

sohtym wrote: post #63
nonethewiser wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sympathetic to this observation but what’s your point? Just a tangent? There is nothing wrong with that but I’m not sure if this is supposed to clarify something. For whatever it’s worth it looks like at least Sweden and Norway have property taxes. Didn’t check others. China is an example of a country without them. Except you can’t own land in China. Your house is effective leased from the government. So not exac…

Sweden technically has a property tax, but it is a maximum of ~900€ a year.

That seems like an affordable (and possibly equally-shared) way to contribute to the running costs of a society.

What happens if you don't pay this? Can they take your home away and sell it? They can do that in the US, BTW.

Re: Why northern Europe is so indebted (2021)

#106

Post by jfengel »

robomartin wrote: post #104
B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you own your property it should mean ... that you pay for the necessary law enforcement, justice, defense, etc. Why do you expect those to be free?

Typically a good idea to read the entire post before commenting. I did not say anything about anything having to be free. Since you brought it up. No, they are not free. We have to pay for them. My point is that I should be able to own my paid-off home. The government should not be able to take my property away because of taxes. Payment for the services you mention should have no connection to home ownership. Everyon…

The Constitution is quite clear that you can be deprived of life, liberty, and property after due process. The home is little different from any other property.

Re: Why northern Europe is so indebted (2021)

#107

Post by rayiner »

smcl wrote: post #7

Not Northern Europe, but Czech Resident here. There has been an explosion in house prices here, a truly wild one. I bought my place for 3.6m CZK about 7 years back and according to a recent valuation practices is "worth" nearly double this now. It is fucking wild, and tbh I kind of hate it.

Why are housing prices going up in countries that are shrinking?

Re: Why northern Europe is so indebted (2021)

#108

Post by toast0 »

yucky wrote: post #101
toast0 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all 50 US states came up with the same thing, it's probably hard to do significantly better. Many states have some method of limiting increases, which helps you budget for the future costs, as long as the rules don't change. Some states, I think Nevada is one, have a program where you can pay an actuarial estimate and be set for the rest of your life as long as you don't move. Many states have programs where you c…

> Some states, I think Nevada is one, have a program where you can pay an actuarial estimate and be set for the rest of your life as long as you don't move. It was referred to as " allodial title ", and I believe the program only lasted for a few years, so unless you're grandfathered in you aren't eligible.

Whoops, I'm way out of date.

Re: Why northern Europe is so indebted (2021)

#109

Post by brwck »

dijit wrote: post #30
sohtym wrote: post #8

Seems a bit general. Sweden is very much in debt because of the housing market. 15 years ago there were little regulation. You could get a 100 year mortgage with a variable rate and no money down. At the same time the government sold large amounts of public housing at below public market rate. Interest rates went from ~4% to ~1.5%. With no wealth or property taxes, but with tax deductions for renovations and interest…

Last time I looked at statistics Swedens debt to GDP was 35%, one of the lowest I saw, which doesn’t really make sense to me when I consider the weakness of the currency, but then again I am just a humble engineer and I have no clue about these things. UK is close to 100% debt to GDP at the moment, the highest in recorded history.

> which doesn’t really make sense to me when I consider the weakness of the currency

When there is war, financial crisis, etc, money seeks the safest harbor. The safest harbor in the world today is the US. Rising interest rates, war in ukraine, competition with china, etc means that the world is buying treasuries. Demand for dollars goes up, demand for most other currencies goes down.

If there is a significant crisis in the world and the dollar doesn't gain in strength, then we'll know a paradigm shift has occurred.

Re: Why northern Europe is so indebted (2021)

#110

Post by mardifoufs »

chucksmash wrote: post #93
mardifoufs wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where's the irony? Do you think HN is a good representation of the US population as a whole?

Assuming you are posting in good faith, the irony to me is that this whole discussion is even happening, stemming from the post: > Where the hell are people "moving across the continent every few years"? Because the answer is right here , on this very website. They are asking us* to prove our existence. Perhaps it'd be more correct to call it incongruity. Perhaps also more correct to have replied directly to the "Whe…

Yeah sorry I was asking in good faith, though I see how my comment could come off as snarky. But I understand what you mean now :)
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