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Write simply (2021)

paulgraham.com

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Re: Write simply (2021)

#101

Post by warent »

dang wrote: post #99
warent wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, there is a lot to admire! It seems a key issue is that he often speaks in terms of what others should or should not do, rather than inviting others to see what has worked for him. Objectivity versus subjectivity. What makes it less palatable is that it appears carefully selected wording is used to (thinly) veil it to sound like something it isn't. Ultimately it means the writing can come across as very…

I don't think he's really telling others what to do; I think he's writing about what he's figured out for himself, and then stripping it down to a minimal expression. The minimalism—a kind of intellectual optimization—matters more to him than how people react. The "sharing with other humans" aspects is an interesting point though, because the way that pg strips things down to minimal expression involves stripping out…

Yes, seeing now that he does have a lot of self-awareness around this which helps provide context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=143606

It's very insightful to get to share different perspectives in these ways. Thanks for being so open

Re: Write simply (2021)

#102

Post by dang »

brhsagain wrote: post #81
dang wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's true, please count me as pseudo intellectual also, because pg is one of the smartest people I've met and I continue to be in awe of how his mind works. I know it's silly to post such a thing, as the bias/conflict of interest is obvious and it will inevitably come across wrong—but I've thought and said this long before I met pg or had any connection to YC, so if there's a causal arrow it goes the other way.…

Related comment that you made 15 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=143575

Thanks! I was just looking for it because it was relevant to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34607336.

Oh and it's astonishing that anybody remembers that.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#103

Post by daveslash »

dang wrote: post #97
daveslash wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Why use many word, when few word do trick. " ~Kevin Malone, The Office. I agree with you.The point of language is to get an idea from my head into your head with as little loss-of-signal as possible. That is much more challenging than it might sound. Note: an idea might be an emotion. If I were to write that as simply as possible , I might say: "Yes. Talk is communication. That is hard" , or even more simply " Talk…

That joke spoils itself by adding "trick". But if it didn't, then it wouldn't work, since "Why use many words when few will do" is perfectly grammatical.

Dang

Re: Write simply (2021)

#104

Post by dang »

rtpg wrote: post #72
dang wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's true, please count me as pseudo intellectual also, because pg is one of the smartest people I've met and I continue to be in awe of how his mind works. I know it's silly to post such a thing, as the bias/conflict of interest is obvious and it will inevitably come across wrong—but I've thought and said this long before I met pg or had any connection to YC, so if there's a causal arrow it goes the other way.…

There are so many people who "think from first principles" (EDIT: meant "think for themselves" via first principles. Comments are not condusive to rewrites). The reality is that many people are treading various intellectual ideas, and the idea that _you_ are the one with the new and innovative idea nobody else has thought of is... well. I think what happens a lot of times though is that people will get to an idea tha…

I think you're right that people very much do those things but I think pg does them a lot less than others. The 'publish anonymously' experiment would indeed be interesting in this case. I'd bet on pg!

Re: Write simply (2021)

#105

Post by sillysaurusx »

dang wrote: post #38
wilsonnb3 wrote: post #17

I get that this guy is like rich and famous and founded this website or something so people always post his stuff here but his writing always has this weird veneer of pseudo intellectual philosophy that I find very off putting.

If that's true, please count me as pseudo intellectual also, because pg is one of the smartest people I've met and I continue to be in awe of how his mind works. I know it's silly to post such a thing, as the bias/conflict of interest is obvious and it will inevitably come across wrong—but I've thought and said this long before I met pg or had any connection to YC, so if there's a causal arrow it goes the other way.…

For what it’s worth, I really loved this relaxed style of writing. It’s the first time I’ve ever seen you seem to enjoy yourself.

> It used to be a truism that one should "think for oneself" (and even "question authority"!)—not so much anymore—but although we all tell ourselves we do that, most of us don't.

We get beaten up when we do. The part that people envy isn’t his money, it’s his freedom.

Incidentally, if you really want an answer to your question, you can see this phenomenon in yourself. Run a thought experiment. If pg said X was a good idea, are you more or less likely to believe it than if I’d said it?

You could say this isn’t a fair comparison, since you have a lot of data about pg, so you’re using different priors. Still, even when he was Lisp-famous —- an era I miss —- he had the freedom to say whatever he wanted. He didn’t need to care whether you care what he thinks.

His recent rebellion against Twitter was especially notable. That’s what happens when you think for yourself. He can do that. The rest of us have to pick our battles.

So, the answer to your question of “Why are people dismissive of pg?” is undoubtedly related to the think-for-yourself aspect. It’s an aspect forced out of most of us, either by our parents or by authority. And that lack of freedom seems to be the underlying emotion.

Interestingly, you seem to imply that any of us can be like pg. Just think for ourselves, have good ideas, and don’t say dumb things. But when people actually try to do that, they risk far more than someone in pg’s position. So the “rich motherfucker” aspect is merely an extension of the same reaction that always tended to pop up. It’s a bit like a prisoner watching someone talk openly about how wonderful it is to walk outside whenever you want; of course they’d be jealous.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#106

Post by bryanrasmussen »

dang wrote: post #97
daveslash wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Why use many word, when few word do trick. " ~Kevin Malone, The Office. I agree with you.The point of language is to get an idea from my head into your head with as little loss-of-signal as possible. That is much more challenging than it might sound. Note: an idea might be an emotion. If I were to write that as simply as possible , I might say: "Yes. Talk is communication. That is hard" , or even more simply " Talk…

That joke spoils itself by adding "trick". But if it didn't, then it wouldn't work, since "Why use many words when few will do" is perfectly grammatical.

why use many word, few do?

Re: Write simply (2021)

#107

Post by Slighted »

dang wrote: post #95
Slighted wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of whether or not its his personal website, my point still stands, although reading my previous post I think I should be more specific. There are quite a lot of big-name programmers that gain large amounts of ego from their work to the point that they feel confident to speak on matters they're not terribly educated to the point that they're fantastically incorrect, and confidently so. >Can we scrutinize al…

I don't know any "big name programmers" but this is definitely a thing socially. Think actors and musicians commenting on social causes and whatnot.

When I was writing my post Jamie Zawinski (The "Mozilla guy") was what I had in mind. A great programmer but very outspoken in his social views to the point that he's entirely disconnected from reality. Lacking perspective. This is a blog post of his that I find to be one of the better examples of what I'm referring to: https://web.archive.org/web/20221211061513/https://www.jwz.o...

Re: Write simply (2021)

#108

Post by Uehreka »

WA wrote: post #91
paulpauper wrote: post #10

This may be good advice for an instruction manual or children's books, but I think good prose is something of an art in and of itself. Some of the most successful writers do the opposite. Look at the articles that go viral ..you see that the prose is varied and even complicated, not just simple. The best prose is that which conveys the intended message for the intended audience in the best way possible. I think it's…

I know zero articles that went viral with varied and complicated prose. Care to share an example or two?

Try five:

- https://www.thedailybeast.com/i-dropped-acid-and-saw-into-th...

- https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anythin...

- https://www.usenix.org/system/files/1311_05-08_mickens.pdf

- https://aphyr.com/posts/341-hexing-the-technical-interview

- https://mango.pdf.zone/finding-former-australian-prime-minis...

Re: Write simply (2021)

#110

Post by dang »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #77
dang wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's true, please count me as pseudo intellectual also, because pg is one of the smartest people I've met and I continue to be in awe of how his mind works. I know it's silly to post such a thing, as the bias/conflict of interest is obvious and it will inevitably come across wrong—but I've thought and said this long before I met pg or had any connection to YC, so if there's a causal arrow it goes the other way.…

dang, I think you should write like Paul - meaning, you should write a few essays, and see if you like writing them, and then if people like reading them. I can happily offer to read your drafts. Also, I am sure PG is really smart, but do not underestimate the effect on your brain of spending hours a day on HN, for many years. That's what makes me curious to read your stuff, in addition to Paul's. Ah, I believe the s…

Spending hours a day on HN has certainly affected my brain but I shudder to imagine how.

I'm pretty content to stick to internet comments. They're below the radar, and I prefer to hide.

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