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Write simply (2021)

paulgraham.com

31–40 of 182 posts

Re: Write simply (2021)

#31
I had a similar idea and wrote about it about a year ago:

https://ethan.id/writing/enguhlishishness/

Another idea I think goes along with this theme: separating the quality of the idea from the quality of the writing. It’s surprisingly difficult to do consistently, and I always try to remind myself to treat the two separately.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#32
I guess I always assumed that big-vocabulary is a sort of classism. It's no secret that people think that those who use large words and complex sentences see themselves as superior (e.g the atlantic).

I know so many people who are very emotionally invested in "correct" grammar/english (semicolons, their/there, oxford comma) but only up to the point that they know and then are annoyed by those who take it 10% further than they.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#33
post #15
post #7

> And remember, if you're writing in English, that a lot of your readers won't be native English speakers Just because some readers might not be proficient in English, we have to write plainly to accommodate them? What if they are seeking prose that makes them better at the language? This is a classic symptom of not having read enough literature. There is a visceral beauty in writing, and trying to place conditions o…

In a similar vein, I got to the word "saltimbocca", two paragraphs in, and was painfully and utterly bored. And frankly, skimming the rest, I found most of the "conclusions" rather insulting. Imagine a world where fancy words can both give a simple idea, as well as provide a deeper meaning to those that look. Indeed some of the most profound and lasting prose is that which paints a scene in your mind. So what brings…

Mr. Graham's article reads like a child's blog post. It's an attempted philosophical appeal with supporting details that consist of pure opinion. I think it can be summarized as an appeal to Paul Graham's authority, were that an established logical fallacy.

Having read a lot of Paul Graham's shit over the years-links in HackerNews, I get the impression that this guy just likes to write for the sake of writing. But it makes me ask: why does his stuff consistently make it to the top of HN?

Were it anyone else, the comment section would be rife with the ilk (pardon my unsimple Scottish!) of, "Why does this site not have a valid SSL certificate?"

Re: Write simply (2021)

#34
post #15
post #7

> And remember, if you're writing in English, that a lot of your readers won't be native English speakers Just because some readers might not be proficient in English, we have to write plainly to accommodate them? What if they are seeking prose that makes them better at the language? This is a classic symptom of not having read enough literature. There is a visceral beauty in writing, and trying to place conditions o…

In a similar vein, I got to the word "saltimbocca", two paragraphs in, and was painfully and utterly bored. And frankly, skimming the rest, I found most of the "conclusions" rather insulting. Imagine a world where fancy words can both give a simple idea, as well as provide a deeper meaning to those that look. Indeed some of the most profound and lasting prose is that which paints a scene in your mind. So what brings…

Good writing is hard. Word choice is more about style and vibe than good writing.

For example, I can tell from your first paragraph that the character is a little boring, a bit plan. They get to the point and don’t have time to mess around. The character in your second paragraph is a pompous ass, they think highly of themselves, perhaps love to hear themselves think. Like a teenager who discovered depth and can’t wait to tell everyone.

Both can be fine. It depends.

Personally I like it when authors have something to say and don’t hide behind grand flourishes. Use the big words where they shine, stand out, and make a point. Let your story do the work, not your words.

But that’s me. Some people like to slug it out with the author in page after page of inscrutable prose. Hell, just look at Ulysses.

edit:

You can use variations in style also. A character that talks like your second paragraph, but when their grandma asks about the room they go "It was green." Oooof sizzle. Drama! What happened here!? Tell me more.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#35
post #15
post #7

> And remember, if you're writing in English, that a lot of your readers won't be native English speakers Just because some readers might not be proficient in English, we have to write plainly to accommodate them? What if they are seeking prose that makes them better at the language? This is a classic symptom of not having read enough literature. There is a visceral beauty in writing, and trying to place conditions o…

In a similar vein, I got to the word "saltimbocca", two paragraphs in, and was painfully and utterly bored. And frankly, skimming the rest, I found most of the "conclusions" rather insulting. Imagine a world where fancy words can both give a simple idea, as well as provide a deeper meaning to those that look. Indeed some of the most profound and lasting prose is that which paints a scene in your mind. So what brings…

[deleted]

Re: Write simply (2021)

#36

This may be good advice for an instruction manual or children's books, but I think good prose is something of an art in and of itself. Some of the most successful writers do the opposite. Look at the articles that go viral ..you see that the prose is varied and even complicated, not just simple. The best prose is that which conveys the intended message for the intended audience in the best way possible. I think it's…

Even his own article about writing simply used the word “expend” in the third sentence. Maybe I’m an indian hillybilly but that sounds quite non-simple to me lol.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#37

I get that this guy is like rich and famous and founded this website or something so people always post his stuff here but his writing always has this weird veneer of pseudo intellectual philosophy that I find very off putting.

Not every thought one decides to collect on their personal website has to be peer-reviewed and well-researched, you know?

It is hilariously dismissive to label someone's own ideas as pseudo intellectual because you don't agree with them, and they aren't coming with a bibliography.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#38

I get that this guy is like rich and famous and founded this website or something so people always post his stuff here but his writing always has this weird veneer of pseudo intellectual philosophy that I find very off putting.

If that's true, please count me as pseudo intellectual also, because pg is one of the smartest people I've met and I continue to be in awe of how his mind works. I know it's silly to post such a thing, as the bias/conflict of interest is obvious and it will inevitably come across wrong—but I've thought and said this long before I met pg or had any connection to YC, so if there's a causal arrow it goes the other way.

People have had this kind of reaction to his writing for 20 years now and I've been puzzling about why for a long time, because even though I often don't agree with him (sometimes I disagree, more often I have no opinion), I wish I could write like him and know of few other writers who come close.

My current take: I think pg's unusual quality is that he thinks for himself. It used to be a truism that one should "think for oneself" (and even "question authority"!)—not so much anymore—but although we all tell ourselves we do that, mostly we don't. We mostly repeat things we've cobbled from other sources, usually sources tagged as authorities in our minds (and usually also in the culture at large). If you cobble from enough sources and have a bit of taste, that's the sweet spot for getting a good reception. You'll come across as clever and creative, but not weird, because you haven't left the tribe.

When encountering someone who actually does think for himself, the reaction is often a WTF. How dare he do that! Where are the citations?! Thinking-for-self stands out, not in a good way—and in pg's case the ruthless editing makes it stand out starkly. It's off-putting. The reaction isn't "hey, what would it be like if I thought for myself?" It's "hey, you can't do that."

The "rich and famous" aspect is a red herring because pg was this way long before he got rich and famous (except Lisp-famous), and it was by this quality that he got rich... that plus a lot of energy. But the rich-and-famous aspect intensifies the WTF reaction. It's no longer just "how dare you", it's "how dare that rich motherfucker" - which again, gets the causality the wrong way.

I know this sounds harsh about the cobbler type but I know these things by tracking them in myself—I'm no different. The funny thing is that one can notice such things and still feel perfectly sure about "thinking for yourself" or whatever else it is.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#39
post #19

Kind of ironic he starts off with "I try to write using ordinary words and simple sentences" then dedicates an entire paragraph to making up an Italian word that really doesn't add anything to his point.

I figured that was to quickly drive the point home. Maybe I'm giving more credit to PG than is due, but that paragraph seemed tongue-in-cheek. I feel it would be hard for anyone to miss the irony.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#40
post #15
post #7

> And remember, if you're writing in English, that a lot of your readers won't be native English speakers Just because some readers might not be proficient in English, we have to write plainly to accommodate them? What if they are seeking prose that makes them better at the language? This is a classic symptom of not having read enough literature. There is a visceral beauty in writing, and trying to place conditions o…

In a similar vein, I got to the word "saltimbocca", two paragraphs in, and was painfully and utterly bored. And frankly, skimming the rest, I found most of the "conclusions" rather insulting. Imagine a world where fancy words can both give a simple idea, as well as provide a deeper meaning to those that look. Indeed some of the most profound and lasting prose is that which paints a scene in your mind. So what brings…

The first makes me think of a plain green room. The second makes me think of the author.
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