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Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

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Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#101

Post by dashundchen »

DDayMace wrote: post #71

Speaking as an American, I spent a summer in Germany, Austria and Denmark delivering cars shipped from California. They were largely turbo diesel and stick shift, and I loved every minute of it. My friend's business had us hunting in LA for good used deals that went under the "old-timer" tariffs. German roads are far superior in every sense: materials, construction, maintenance, drainage, etc. They pay a price in tax…

It's not just the license requirements. The standard for maintenance and at a German TÜV inspection is far beyond most state level inspections in the US (if they are required at all in your state).

In Florida it was very common to see cars with bald tires, dangerous lifts and modifications, and plenty of heaps broken down littering the road side.

Even in New York where inspections are required annually and are stringent for the US, there's a lot of ways a poorly maintained vehicle will still pass. I wouldn't want a car with worn brakes, summer tires in the snow, etc trying to do 100+ on the highway, it would not end well.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#102

Post by SaddledBounding »

lofaszvanitt wrote: post #91

Oh the saints here who talk about why speeding is bad... Nobody cares. Much much more people die from processed foods/air pollution in the world than from motorway accidents. Around 120x more people die from cardiovascular/cancer related disease than motorway accidents. And not every motorway accident is caused by excessive speeding.

I do not believe it follows from "Much much more people die from processed foods/air pollution in the world than from motorway accidents" that nobody should care about speeding and motorway accidents. After all, far fewer people still are murdered, but the consensus seems to be that we care about murderers.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#103

Post by wolrah »

Retric wrote: post #75
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the driver who stays well under 130 because he feels that’s safer for him and everyone around That’s the other extreme that is a part of the problem. Both, the speedster and the slouch think their speed is safer for them. Driving too slow for the traffic around is as dangerous as driving too fast.

It isn’t symmetric. Being X kph faster than traffic is significantly more risky than being X kph slower than traffic. It’s that damn Velocity squared term that always fucks things up.

> It isn’t symmetric. Being X kph faster than traffic is significantly more risky than being X kph slower than traffic.

You're neglecting one very important fact:

A driver who is correctly taking advantages of the freedom of a derestricted section, following all the rules and driving fast "the right way" doesn't interfere with other traffic at all. Likewise for a driver who is driving in the same manner on equivalent roads in other parts of the world that don't respect their drivers in the same way. If you're driving fast the right way, you don't interfere with anyone else.

Compare that to a driver going significantly slower than the normal flow of traffic. That driver is always interfering with other traffic. Everyone wanting to drive the normal speed has to maneuver around them which creates problems for the next lane or two over. Depending on how easy it is to get around the slow driver they may also create road rage.

Now, obviously if you screw up while driving fast the consequences are generally going to be substantially more severe, but slow drivers cause problems of their own just by being there, no matter how well they're driving otherwise.

There's a reason most controlled-access highways require that your vehicle have a minimum level of power and some even have minimum speed limits. When the flow of traffic is X, a vehicle moving X-20 is a dangerous obstruction.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#104

Post by saeranv »

greatgib wrote: post #99

There are good points to discuss on this topic, but my opinion is that this "debunking" is full of junk with twisted facts or "opinion" being confused with facts. From my own experience driving there, I noticed that the average speed on the left lanes are usually around 160 with faster cars around 180. But the truth is that with the traffic, it is very rare that you can go fast because when there start to be a reason…

> There are good points to discuss on this topic, but my opinion is that this "debunking" is full of junk with twisted facts or "opinion" being confused with facts.

You should carefully reread your own post, its actually all opinion being confused for facts! It's very striking, since the original article not only supports its claims with data and cited sources, but specifically refutes the points your making. Did you just read the title and decide to refute it?

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#105

Post by watersb »

WalterBright wrote: post #94
DDayMace wrote: post #71

Speaking as an American, I spent a summer in Germany, Austria and Denmark delivering cars shipped from California. They were largely turbo diesel and stick shift, and I loved every minute of it. My friend's business had us hunting in LA for good used deals that went under the "old-timer" tariffs. German roads are far superior in every sense: materials, construction, maintenance, drainage, etc. They pay a price in tax…

When we lived in Deutschland in the 70s, my Dad would joke that the "D" sticker on German cars meant "Drag racing" as the Germans drove with their foot on the floor. He would putt putt along the autobahn at an agonizingly slow pace. I asked him why he didn't enjoy driving fast. He replied that he'd firewalled Mustangs and SabreJets on the deck, and driving fast on the autobahn was boring in comparison. If you vote fo…

"Firewalled" and "balls to the wall" are aviation terms for full engine power, and refer to the forward wall of an airplane cockpit.

On a good day, the wall keeps any fire from the engine from entering the human-rated zone.

The engine power control, by convention, pushes forward to increase power. So full power is at the maximum excursion towards the front of the plane, towards the firewall.

In the very few general aviation aircraft I've flown, the throttle was literally a rod with a plastic sphere on the end. You grab the ball and push it all the way into the instrument panel for full power: that's "ball to the wall".

Also in the other direction, reducing the throttle setting, that's "pulling power": you pull it out. Usually on time. And yes all of the jokes are that childish and it doesn't matter because hey, you're flying and it's awesome.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#106

Post by nikau »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #80
nikau wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easily removed with a gentlemens ECU reflash.

With which you 'voided the warranty', 'allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis' and any insurance. Which in case of an accident trashes your life, even if nothing really bad happened (to you).

Does it void insurance? AFAIK as long as you have correct rated tires its legal.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#107

Post by M95D »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #53
WirelessGigabit wrote: post #13

Myth #1: is a non-reason to ban it. Non-usage of something is not a reason to get rid of something Myth #2: I've never met someone who is like: oh if I cannot drive 200kmph I'll be late to my meeting. That's not why people drive fast. They do because it's fun! Myth #3: Emissions are taxed. Car consumes more, so you pay more taxes. Myth #4: You cannot push everybody to electric cars and then yell: oh but the electrici…

> I've never met someone who is like: oh if I cannot drive 200kmph I'll be late to my meeting. That's not why people drive fast. They do because it's fun! There’s nothing fun about going 200+ in a straight line. It’s more fun to drive fast on a bendy country road. The thing is, most people have no clue how to handle a car. People drive fast on the Autobahn because of the ego and because it is allowed.

Maybe it's not fun FOR YOU.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#108

Post by angry_octet »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #68
tensorturtle wrote: post #9

Proponents of unlimited speed Autobahn could argue: 1. The tourism value: I anecdotally know people visit Germany just for the Autobahn. (See Nürburgring, which is technically an Autobahn) 2. Sale of performance cars: The high actual minimum speed (from my experience you need to drive at around 150km/h in the middle lane, and 180-200km/h to pass on the left lane). Almost anywhere else in the world, the top speed of c…

> Germans collectively have excellent driving mannerisms and skills Myth number 6.

Half true: skill level is likely the same as any first world population, but they do have very good lane procedure: you won't often find slow cars in the fast lane, or people overtaking those rare instances via the slow lane. They will honk and flash if you're slow in the fast lane, but by German standards that too is correct. I've never had someone passive-agressive brake in front of me for wanting to overtake, or speeding up in the overtaking lane, things that happen too often in the US.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#109

Post by angry_octet »

SaddledBounding wrote: post #102
lofaszvanitt wrote: post #91

Oh the saints here who talk about why speeding is bad... Nobody cares. Much much more people die from processed foods/air pollution in the world than from motorway accidents. Around 120x more people die from cardiovascular/cancer related disease than motorway accidents. And not every motorway accident is caused by excessive speeding.

I do not believe it follows from "Much much more people die from processed foods/air pollution in the world than from motorway accidents" that nobody should care about speeding and motorway accidents. After all, far fewer people still are murdered, but the consensus seems to be that we care about murderers.

We can only think about one thing, and that thing must be the most horrible or offensive, rather than the more likely/dangerous. Hence the obsession with terrorists hiding under every rock while ignoring deaths from opioids, smoking, obesity, and COVID. Libertarians would rather be anal probed at every airport than wear a mask on a commuter train.

Re: Debunking common myths about the Autobahn

#110

Post by bluecalm »

mwint wrote: post #96
bluecalm wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emissions are not taxed anywhere close to the cost of damage they cause. Electric cars still pollute (tires and brake pads). In general cars and car infrastructure is very heavily subsidized and the least we should expect for it is drivers not engaging in wasteful and dangerous behaviors.

Hey look it’s the brake pad myth again! I’m kind of tired of debunking it, so let’s try putting the onus of proof on the person claiming EVs burn brake pads at any rate even remotely comparable to gas cars. Is there anything out there that says that? (My Nissan Leaf’s service manual says otherwise)

It might be a lesser rate but they still burn them (and the tires). I am not claiming EVs cause more of it. I am claiming is a problem and reckless driving only magnifies it.
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