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Ask HN: Why is there no way to lower amber alert volume on headphones?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is there no way to lower amber alert volume on headphones?

#101

Post by RegnisGnaw »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #90
tsm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a US-specific system for alerting people to missing children. It's named after Amber Hagerman⁰, a 9-year-old who was abducted and murdered in the '90s. On smartphones they can appear as (very loud) notifications with details about the missing child, potential abductors, vehicle, etc. You'll also see the same info on electronic message boards along the motorway. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_alert#Names…

> It's a US-specific system It’s deployed in a lot of countries. Search this thread for “Ontario” (Canada) for example.

In Canada, we don't send AMBER Alerts though. We send all alerts as NATIONAL/PRESIDENTIAL ALERT.

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no way to lower amber alert volume on headphones?

#102

Post by Elyra »

RegnisGnaw wrote: post #96
radford-neal wrote: post #26

I very much doubt that there is any technical reason for the alerts always being loud. It's a deliberate decision. Like the whole idea of amber alerts, it is a matter of authorities taking decisions that make them feel good, without considering the consequences. Amber alerts are bad. We get them now and them in Ontario at 3am, sent to the entire (rather large) province. This is idiotic. The probability that someone w…

There is no such thing as Phone/Mobile AMBER Alerts in Ontario. The US system has different levels of alerts: Presidential/National Alerts, AMBER Alerts, Extreme Weather Alerts, Dangerous Weather Alerts, etc. On my Pixel 6, everything but the Presidential/National Alerts can be disabled. Same with my wife's Galaxy S22. I assume the same for iPhones. However the Canadian system (which is heavily based on the American…

Which provider are you with? They show up as Amber alerts for me and can be disabled from my unlocked pixel (stock os, not rooted) with bell. I have confirmed this by being with other people when an alert happened to go off. Usually though I leave them on and silenced (seems to respect my ringer volume and do not disturb settings).

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no way to lower amber alert volume on headphones?

#103

Post by RegnisGnaw »

acc_297 wrote: post #98
RegnisGnaw wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as Phone/Mobile AMBER Alerts in Ontario. The US system has different levels of alerts: Presidential/National Alerts, AMBER Alerts, Extreme Weather Alerts, Dangerous Weather Alerts, etc. On my Pixel 6, everything but the Presidential/National Alerts can be disabled. Same with my wife's Galaxy S22. I assume the same for iPhones. However the Canadian system (which is heavily based on the American…

Ontario does have amber alerts https://amberalert.opp.ca/

I'm not talking about AMBER Alert in General, I'm talking about the mobile phone warning system.

The Canadian is based on the US system with different levels: National/Presidential Alert, AMBER Alert, Extreme Weather Alert, Dangerous Weather Alert, etc.

However in our system, all alerts are sent as 'National/Presidential Alert'.

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no way to lower amber alert volume on headphones?

#104

Post by palmscenter »

dtjb wrote: post #46
radford-neal wrote: post #26

I very much doubt that there is any technical reason for the alerts always being loud. It's a deliberate decision. Like the whole idea of amber alerts, it is a matter of authorities taking decisions that make them feel good, without considering the consequences. Amber alerts are bad. We get them now and them in Ontario at 3am, sent to the entire (rather large) province. This is idiotic. The probability that someone w…

It's getting worse. Most US states [1] have started to use the phone siren system for injured cops as well. Regardless of your politics on this, what exactly am I supposed to do with a notification at 2AM that a cop was shot 400 miles away? Seems like the phone alert system is being used to push public perceptions rather than public safety. [1] https://cops.usdoj.gov/BlueAlert

The two instances where alerts are typically sent statewide are Blue and Amber. The theory in both is that the perp may be many miles away from where the incident took place. And that is often the case, especially with child abductions.

Some states will not send alerts overnight and others will; it is a matter of state policy - and ultimately an issue for the ballot box.

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no way to lower amber alert volume on headphones?

#105

Post by RegnisGnaw »

Elyra wrote: post #102
RegnisGnaw wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as Phone/Mobile AMBER Alerts in Ontario. The US system has different levels of alerts: Presidential/National Alerts, AMBER Alerts, Extreme Weather Alerts, Dangerous Weather Alerts, etc. On my Pixel 6, everything but the Presidential/National Alerts can be disabled. Same with my wife's Galaxy S22. I assume the same for iPhones. However the Canadian system (which is heavily based on the American…

Which provider are you with? They show up as Amber alerts for me and can be disabled from my unlocked pixel (stock os, not rooted) with bell. I have confirmed this by being with other people when an alert happened to go off. Usually though I leave them on and silenced (seems to respect my ringer volume and do not disturb settings).

What province?

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no way to lower amber alert volume on headphones?

#106

Post by palmscenter »

coldpie wrote: post #51
dtjb wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's getting worse. Most US states [1] have started to use the phone siren system for injured cops as well. Regardless of your politics on this, what exactly am I supposed to do with a notification at 2AM that a cop was shot 400 miles away? Seems like the phone alert system is being used to push public perceptions rather than public safety. [1] https://cops.usdoj.gov/BlueAlert

> Seems like the phone alert system is being used to push public perceptions rather than public safety. Yes, they absolutely are. Just a couple weeks ago, local law enforcement sent out an incredibly vague shelter-in-place active-shooter alert across the entire Twin Cities area for a situation in a suburb that was resolved about five minutes later[1]. Schools were locked down, buildings closed, etc. And wouldn't you…

That shelter-in-place alert did not follow well-established practices that require more details in the content and more geographically limited alerts. The agency that sent this alert got an earful afterwards and presumably will update their training.

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no way to lower amber alert volume on headphones?

#107

Post by Elyra »

RegnisGnaw wrote: post #105
Elyra wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which provider are you with? They show up as Amber alerts for me and can be disabled from my unlocked pixel (stock os, not rooted) with bell. I have confirmed this by being with other people when an alert happened to go off. Usually though I leave them on and silenced (seems to respect my ringer volume and do not disturb settings).

What province?

Ontario

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no way to lower amber alert volume on headphones?

#108

Post by bombcar »

RegnisGnaw wrote: post #99
mrits wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have amber alerts disabled but still receive weather emergency notifications. Which makes sense. Perhaps it works differently in different states? In Texas my iPhone has this alert granularity: AMBER Emergency Public Safety Test

Depends on where you are. In Canada, our system sends everything as "National/Presidential Alerts". We don't use the different levels at all. So AMBER Alert, Weather Alert, etc are all Presidential/National Alerts.

Does Canada even have a president?

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no way to lower amber alert volume on headphones?

#109

Post by palmscenter »

bombcar wrote: post #67
jerf wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When we finally got a series of multiple Amber alerts in the middle of the night, most of the people I know turned them off." To be honest I wonder if the people in charge were starting to get a kick at waking up so many people, or if they were engaging in some sort of malicious compliance, e.g., maybe the people responsible for sending the alerts out are also pretty pissed off at being woken up to send them out. Th…

I suspect it's all automated, and since the vast majority are custody issues, there's probably something like "you were supposed to hand over your daughter by 10 PM, but we don't count it as late until after midnight, and THEN your ex-wife has to call and complain, and by the time it's in the system it's 3 AM, and the system automatically sends the alert". And then they don't even send another alert saying she was fo…

There is nothing automated about originating those alerts. The actual procedure for transmitting the alert is manual. The incident has to meet state criteria including likelihood of harm to the child, criminal activity, information about the vehicle and other facts.

A missing child in a custody dispute alone is rarely enough to trigger an alert.

One of the leading types of child abductions leading to alerts is vehicle theft with a child in the vehicle. Not a custody dispute.

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no way to lower amber alert volume on headphones?

#110

Post by palmscenter »

bombcar wrote: post #74
registeredcorn wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I was getting alerts from many hundreds of miles away. Isn't part of the issue that when a child is taken, the assumption is that the kidnapper will immediately flee the area? I think hundreds, plural, might be excessive, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to notify people within a certain distance based on high speed and how much time has passed; maybe 50-100 miles? I can see getting annoyed at multiple messages, but…

The problem is that very few are actually "stranger danger" kidnappings; they're almost always custody disputes. And if you live anywhere near a major city, you will get them relatively often. If there was a way to turn off "parent kidnappings" and leave the rest on, I'm sure most people would take it.

It doesn't matter whether the cause is a custody dispute or something else. Custody disputes of themselves do not meet the criteria for AMBER alerts. Danger to the child and criminal activity are among the criteria that have to be met for the alert to be sent.

States vary as to how effectively they run their alerting systems, and how well they follow best practices, but that is ultimately an issue for the voters.

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