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FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

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Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#101

Post by atoav »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #31
atoav wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a recording engineer and I will choose 32 bits over 24 any day when recording. Of course you need the right (exceptionally good!) preamps to even make a difference here, but when you are manipulating audio 32 bits and upwards (for summing) are the default (for a reason). Having something to store those files with a little bit of lossless compression is a welcome addition

It's very unlikely your audio interface can actually record at 32 bit resolution. https://www.mojo-audio.com/blog/the-24bit-delusion/ 32bit or more makes sense for dsp and summing, and non-musical data storage. But your I/O is most likely not giving 32 bits

My sounddevices mixpre 10 records in 32 bits. Granted not all of those bits will be significant, but the preamps are good enough to take 24 bits to the limit.

32 bits are less critical to set the gain for (more headroom) and audio files are tiny anyways (compared to say, video). So in a practical sense I need to be less precise with setting the gain, or can record a bit more dynamic events. I am very happy with the results.

Sounddevices has a good explaination if you are curious: https://www.sounddevices.com/32-bit-float-files-explained/

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#102

Post by astrange »

thrdbndndn wrote: post #61
aaaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boomkat?

I've heard of that too, but in my case it's batch of Japanese distributors like e-onkyo [1] or Ototoy [2]. [1] https://www.e-onkyo.com/music/ [2] https://ototoy.jp/top/

Yes, unfortunately all of Japan has jumped headfirst into something called "hi-res audio" which is a complete scam, as CD audio is already the highest quality something mixed for humans could possibly need to be. I'd like to think it's an excuse to stop doing loudness war mastering, but it's probably just as bad.

The real problem with CD audio is that it's premixed in stereo, and the real next step is Atmos/spatial audio. Just because you only have two ears doesn't mean you can't hear 360 degrees.

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#103

Post by nayuki »

freedom-fries wrote: post #97
sprash wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes encoding time doesn't matter. Archiving is done once in a lifetime. I encode everything with "--lax -8Vepl32" which takes ages but since it runs as a low priority background task I don't care. Also, you can use heuristics to choose the right blocksize instead of brute-forcing it. If the algorithm is clever enough you might achieve slightly better results at almost zero costs.

Interesting. Do you have numbers to show that variable block size can be done with "almost zero cost" as you said?

I think "If the algorithm is clever enough" is a big weasel phrase just like https://wiki.c2.com/?SufficientlySmartCompiler . Having studied and written many algorithms, I have to conservatively assume that a clever algorithm doesn't exist unless it is proven by construction.

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#104

Post by Maursault »

astrange wrote: post #102
thrdbndndn wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard of that too, but in my case it's batch of Japanese distributors like e-onkyo [1] or Ototoy [2]. [1] https://www.e-onkyo.com/music/ [2] https://ototoy.jp/top/

Yes, unfortunately all of Japan has jumped headfirst into something called "hi-res audio" which is a complete scam, as CD audio is already the highest quality something mixed for humans could possibly need to be. I'd like to think it's an excuse to stop doing loudness war mastering, but it's probably just as bad. The real problem with CD audio is that it's premixed in stereo, and the real next step is Atmos/spatial a…

> which is a complete scam

I can hear the difference between 16-bit audio and 24-bit audio. 16-bit isn't bad at all, but 24-bit is definitely superior. I've worked with 32-bit on digital boards, and I think it is probably over-overkill, but whatever makes someone happy.

But one thing I know for certain and beyond all possibility of doubt is that I only have two ears. All that is necessary for 3D sound is stereo speakers. To be clear, with only 2 speakers sound can be mixed to seem like it is coming from any direction the engineer desires, left, right, top, bottom, front, back, and everywhere in between. And stereo speakers are dead simple to set up correctly for 3D sound. Sure, you can use 6 or 8 or 10 speakers to get the same effect, if you can figure out how to properly set them up, which is not a given, but I think it's a dick-pull and a money grab because no one can hear with more than two ears.

I realize there are Surround fanatics out there and in here that feel very strongly about it, but the physics of acoustics tells me their set ups are no better than and less efficient than stereo, and nearly always incorrectly configured.

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#105

Post by astrange »

Maursault wrote: post #104
astrange wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, unfortunately all of Japan has jumped headfirst into something called "hi-res audio" which is a complete scam, as CD audio is already the highest quality something mixed for humans could possibly need to be. I'd like to think it's an excuse to stop doing loudness war mastering, but it's probably just as bad. The real problem with CD audio is that it's premixed in stereo, and the real next step is Atmos/spatial a…

> which is a complete scam I can hear the difference between 16-bit audio and 24-bit audio. 16-bit isn't bad at all, but 24-bit is definitely superior. I've worked with 32-bit on digital boards, and I think it is probably over-overkill, but whatever makes someone happy. But one thing I know for certain and beyond all possibility of doubt is that I only have two ears . All that is necessary for 3D sound is stereo spea…

> I can hear the difference between 16-bit audio and 24-bit audio. 16-bit isn't bad at all, but 24-bit is definitely superior.

Generally means they got the dithering wrong. (You might be hearing the dithering actually.)

How well can you hear quiet music while standing next to a running power drill? 16-bit can represent that accurately.

> But one thing I know for certain and beyond all possibility of doubt is that I only have two ears. All that is necessary for 3D sound is stereo speakers.

But it doesn't matter how many ears you have. The problem is that it always sounds like it's coming from the same direction, because it's premixed. Can't turn yourself around and have the front and back switch, or move your head around to get a better localization.

Even if you don't care about that, it won't sound perfect because the mixer doesn't know your HRTF or if you're on headphones vs IEMs vs speakers.

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#106

Post by nextaccountic »

astrange wrote: post #105
Maursault wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which is a complete scam I can hear the difference between 16-bit audio and 24-bit audio. 16-bit isn't bad at all, but 24-bit is definitely superior. I've worked with 32-bit on digital boards, and I think it is probably over-overkill, but whatever makes someone happy. But one thing I know for certain and beyond all possibility of doubt is that I only have two ears . All that is necessary for 3D sound is stereo spea…

> I can hear the difference between 16-bit audio and 24-bit audio. 16-bit isn't bad at all, but 24-bit is definitely superior. Generally means they got the dithering wrong. (You might be hearing the dithering actually.) How well can you hear quiet music while standing next to a running power drill? 16-bit can represent that accurately. > But one thing I know for certain and beyond all possibility of doubt is that I o…

> But it doesn't matter how many ears you have. The problem is that it always sounds like it's coming from the same direction, because it's premixed. Can't turn yourself around and have the front and back switch, or move your head around to get a better localization.

Is this like VR, but for sound?

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#107

Post by nextaccountic »

atoav wrote: post #5
michaelwww wrote: post #3

After reading "How Music Works" by David Byrne, it seem like FLAC is solving the wrong problem. No one needs over 4 billion discrete levels.

I am a recording engineer and I will choose 32 bits over 24 any day when recording. Of course you need the right (exceptionally good!) preamps to even make a difference here, but when you are manipulating audio 32 bits and upwards (for summing) are the default (for a reason). Having something to store those files with a little bit of lossless compression is a welcome addition

You mean 32 bits float? This is 32 bits integer

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#108

Post by iforgotpassword »

Maursault wrote: post #104
astrange wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, unfortunately all of Japan has jumped headfirst into something called "hi-res audio" which is a complete scam, as CD audio is already the highest quality something mixed for humans could possibly need to be. I'd like to think it's an excuse to stop doing loudness war mastering, but it's probably just as bad. The real problem with CD audio is that it's premixed in stereo, and the real next step is Atmos/spatial a…

> which is a complete scam I can hear the difference between 16-bit audio and 24-bit audio. 16-bit isn't bad at all, but 24-bit is definitely superior. I've worked with 32-bit on digital boards, and I think it is probably over-overkill, but whatever makes someone happy. But one thing I know for certain and beyond all possibility of doubt is that I only have two ears . All that is necessary for 3D sound is stereo spea…

> All that is necessary for 3D sound is stereo speakers. To be clear, with only 2 speakers sound can be mixed to seem like it is coming from any direction the engineer desires, left, right, top, bottom, front, back, and everywhere in between.

Sure, if you want to sit perfectly still in a tiny spot this will work. And don't even think about trying to move closer to that one instrument you hear coming from the rear left.

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#109

Post by astrange »

nextaccountic wrote: post #106
astrange wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can hear the difference between 16-bit audio and 24-bit audio. 16-bit isn't bad at all, but 24-bit is definitely superior. Generally means they got the dithering wrong. (You might be hearing the dithering actually.) How well can you hear quiet music while standing next to a running power drill? 16-bit can represent that accurately. > But one thing I know for certain and beyond all possibility of doubt is that I o…

> But it doesn't matter how many ears you have. The problem is that it always sounds like it's coming from the same direction, because it's premixed. Can't turn yourself around and have the front and back switch, or move your head around to get a better localization. Is this like VR, but for sound?

Sure, or it's just sound in VR.

Re: FLAC 1.4.0 released – added support for 32-bit audio

#110

Post by atoav »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #96
jrajav wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

32-bit is common in field recordings, like with a Zoom (and there's reason to believe they can legitimately take advantage of it).

That's a bit different, as it's 32 bit floating point, not integer. 32 bit float is often used for summing and that's what's going on here. Those are done by having 2 (or more) parallel ADCs (usually 24 or 16 bit) with the input voltage scaled lower on each successive one, and then they are digitally re-scaled and mixed together using a 32 bit float format into a single stream (double that paragraph for stereo). The…

I was thinking flac 32 bits is float as well?
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