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RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

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Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#101

Post by LeoNatan25 »

pjmlp wrote: post #63
eyelidlessness wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if Cocoa is that language specific or if it’s become legacy tech. When Swift was announced and when I explored it for personal projects, I was very much calling Cocoa APIs. They definitely catered to ObjC-isms, but my impression was that all of the underlying UI frameworks were being preserved even if they might gain additive APIs to be used less awkwardly in Swift.

This year Apple made the point Objective-C is done, time to move on, for those that were still wondering. Around minute 4, or go through the transcript. https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/102/

“Objective-C is done, time to move on” … except for Apple themselves, where we still see a steep rise in ObjC year over year with no visible sign of slowing that incline.

Likewise for AppKit.

Apple, the “do as we say, not as we do” company.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#102

Post by chrismsimpson »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #37
adastra22 wrote: post #2

This looks like not a reskin of an existing FreeBSD or Linux windows system, but an actual reimplementation of macOS. Very interesting if they can pull it off! I wonder though, why start with old Objective-C cocoa APIs instead of Swift?

I wonder if Cocoa is that language specific or if it’s become legacy tech. When Swift was announced and when I explored it for personal projects, I was very much calling Cocoa APIs. They definitely catered to ObjC-isms, but my impression was that all of the underlying UI frameworks were being preserved even if they might gain additive APIs to be used less awkwardly in Swift.

SwiftUI is an intermediate step in this transition. Expect the UIKit/AppKit bits to eventually disappear.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#103

Post by LeoNatan25 »

michaelmrose wrote: post #95
ysleepy wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those are bugs, just differences. sounds like you tried for a day and were annoyed it's not exactly as you are used to. Most of your issues simply work differently on macos, and many have been since before kde existed. Sure some could be better, but changing these would upset the whole user base. (And mac users could claim those things broken in kde in the same way) I have used windows, gnome2, gnome3, xfce,…

Most entries in posters list are complaints with how things work. Two of these seem like bugs. > Sometimes audio balance will randomly shift to the left or right with bluetooth headphones > There is a delay of ~100ms when pushing caps lock Another seems objective not subjective > Pressing enter in Finder renames a file instead of opening it Who thinks the enter to rename is reasonable?

> Who thinks the enter to rename is reasonable?

Decades of MacOS users?

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#104

Post by prmoustache »

rich_sasha wrote: post #90
croh wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what is the last time you used linux but lately there is great improvements in user experience. I know non-techie people using Linux Mint/ubuntu without any hassels.

I'm writing this from my Ubuntu desktop (LTE). Just a few months ago some update broke everything (graphics). Then somehow I fixed it, but it broke again on restart. It took best part of a week for me to fix. You might say it wasn't the best distribution for reliability, or that graphics with NVidia are always an issue etc. but the fact remains that, for me, for an OS to "just work out of the box", MacOS is much bett…

So basically you played with fire(nvidia) and got burned.

There is one way to run nvidia stuff on Linux and have a decent experience: run a distro that actually support and has partnership with nvidia, which mean a distro like Redhat Enterprise Linux. It has long term support too.

It is the same with Apple or windows if you start using shitty drivers from a shady brand you will run into issues at some point.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#105

Post by still_grokking »

nikitaga wrote: post #58
still_grokking wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) It will become hard to use Ctrl-based text navigation shortcuts (such as Ctrl+left to navigate one word left) with one hand Why would it be any different than on macOS? > 2) Ctrl+Tab will now use the same physical keys as Alt+Tab used to, and your brain will never heal from this (at least mine refuses to). So why not switch this also? Where's the problem? At least on Linux there are no issues. It's mostly clicki…

> Why would it be any different than on macOS? Because in MacOS those arrow-based text shortcuts are Alt-based, not Ctrl-based, and right Alt is already located right next to the arrow keys where it's most convenient for those particular shortcuts. It does not need any remapping since in MacOS the Alt key is not used for most other system shortcuts, unlike the Ctrl key on Windows/Linux. > At least on Linux there are…

> Because in MacOS those arrow-based text shortcuts are Alt-based, not Ctrl-based, and right Alt is already located right next to the arrow keys where it's most convenient for those particular shortcuts.

Where's the problem to tick a checkbox and change that?

> Been there tried that, on Ubuntu, last attempt a couple years ago. Does not work, many apps have Ctrl+tab hard coded to switch between their tabs, so if you make Ctrl+tab the system shortcut for switching apps, you can't switch tabs in those hardcoding apps anymore.

Once again, that are GTK problems.

Just avoid GTK (v3 and later) and Electron and there are no usability issues. Simple as that. But I'm repeating myself.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#106

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

drKarl wrote: post #100

That seems like a lot of work. If what you want is to be able to run MacOS X apps on a free (like in free speech) environment, there's https://www.darlinghq.org/ which is like Wine but for MacOs X apps. If what you want is to replicate the MacOS X UI you can customize the UI of your DE on Linux, or use something like ElementaryOS or use Pantheon. What are the goals of this project?

Cool. What kind of GUI apps work ? The FAQ doesn't say much except basic.

Could we use Mac compatible apps in place of windows ones if Linux isn't available? Games? Productivity?

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#108

Post by dolmen »

solardev wrote: post #88
timeon wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - "Cut" does not work for files in finder, severely complicating moving files Luckily macos is extensible so you can create your own service for that.

Mac has a different workflow for this. You copy and then "paste and move" at the destination, instead of the standard cut. But same result.

I was used to Ctrl+X, Ctrl+V to move files on Windows.

What is the shortcut for "paste and move"?

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#109

Post by trenchgun »

solardev wrote: post #84
JacobSeated wrote: post #64

KDE is a better desktop environment than MacOS, by far. I have had so many usability issues with my Mac that does not exist in KDE/Linux. E.g. Apple confining the GUI and not including basic functionality. Specifically: - I really miss a decent address bar in finder that can be edited directly - some windows on mac are always on top, preventing access to other windows. E.g. Password dialogs for encrypted hard drives.…

Coming from the Windows and Linux worlds, I had similar frustrations with the primitive Mac UI. Mostly a better keyboard shortcuts/window timer fixed them for me (Magnet). There are still some issues but they are relatively minor. What made me stick with the platform though was never having to worry about drivers, and updates being polite and patient, and not being bombarded with a billion ads everywhere like in Wind…

Linux works with M1

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#110

Post by Croftengea »

mattlutze wrote: post #89

I struggle with chasing after the MacOS appearance. It feels in passing like a lot of work to build a skin/UI that will always be a few generations of the design language behind and not quite there, just given the volume of staff at Apple and them being the ones defining where their design language goes. Like a choice between a Porsche and, according to Google a Zotye -- they'll look close but one will be the obvious…

> given the volume of staff at Apple

Unrelated to RavynOS, but I see the size of the Apple staff more like a weakness not a strength. They became terribly inefficient in the recent years.

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