RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD • Hacker News Board

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#81

Post by butterNaN » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 7:21 AM UTC

croh wrote: post #70

rich_sasha wrote: post #67

The one thing keeping me on MacOS is that it is "*nix that works". I have never found Ubuntu / Linux to be as stable; worrying about updates breaking things, updates indeed breaking things, drivers randomly stopping working, googling in desperation for half-baked fixes online, randomly trying different options in some dotfile until stuff works etc. Mac just works; maybe there are features that Linux would give me, bu…

I don't know what is the last time you used linux but lately there is great improvements in user experience. I know non-techie people using Linux Mint/ubuntu without any hassels.

I'm the de facto IT support for my family and neighbours. They are using Pop OS for about 3 years now. It has been great from both their UX and my maintenance perspective.

My father even did the 20.10 to 21.04 LTS upgrade himself! I highly doubt if windows would've been as smooth an experience.

(Macs are out of question for us since none of us are rich!)

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#82

Post by timeon » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 7:23 AM UTC

JacobSeated wrote: post #64

KDE is a better desktop environment than MacOS, by far. I have had so many usability issues with my Mac that does not exist in KDE/Linux. E.g. Apple confining the GUI and not including basic functionality. Specifically: - I really miss a decent address bar in finder that can be edited directly - some windows on mac are always on top, preventing access to other windows. E.g. Password dialogs for encrypted hard drives.…

> - "Cut" does not work for files in finder, severely complicating moving files

Luckily macos is extensible so you can create your own service for that.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#83

Post by still_grokking » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 7:23 AM UTC

paldepind2 wrote: post #62

still_grokking wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Consistent shortcuts" is the main "feature" keeping me on KDE. Cmd+Shift+, opens preferences in every app. Alt+Left or Right (or Back or Forward) goes "back" and "forward", in every app that has those concepts Cmd+Tab or Cmd+Shift-Tab switches tabs, in every app that has tabs. Cmd+W closes the current tab by default, if the app has tabs, (or current window, if the app has no tabs) Cmd+Q quits the app. Etc. What's ag…

> One needs only to avoid GTK stuff, Electron, and Windows Software, and one gets perfectly consistent behavior. So as long as one avoids all the inconsistencies then one gets consistent shortcuts? ;) Only using Qt apps on Linux is very hard. A lot of good apps are GTK or Electron. On macOS there is no GTK & Qt divide and Electron apps are very good at implementing macOS shortcuts. Hence you get more consistent bindi…

> Only using Qt apps on Linux is very hard.

There are even whole distris doing that… ;-)

https://kaosx.us/

I have hardly any GTK app installed and I would not know what I'm missing. (Firefox uses GTK but it has it's own UI anyway). Electron? That's the plague of modern times. Besides VSCode (which I will switch away in a blink as soon as the alternatives are ready) I don't use any Electron peep. Also here I would not know what I'm missing.

But of course, it's only me. YMMV

> Cmd+Shift+/ to search all menus is also super useful and I don't think you can do that on KDE.

Global menu is of course integrated in KDE. You can even use it form KRunner (of course with fuzzy search).

https://libreddit.northboot.xyz/r/kde/comments/r85jcz/tip_yo...

I think the idea of using a "HUD" in KDE is actually even older than the macOS feature.

https://github.com/Zren/plasma-hud/

> If you don't think macOS can be configured then you are mistaken.

Apple products are made for the mass market. That's one of the reasons they actually follow the same philosophy as Gnome. What this means regarding options everybody knows I guess:

Options are hard to maintain and "confuse the user".

So Apple products are dumbed down even more with every release. (They even replace perfectly fine working software with "touch-ware" in the attempt to make everything more tailored to the causal users).

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#84

Post by solardev » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 7:26 AM UTC

JacobSeated wrote: post #64

KDE is a better desktop environment than MacOS, by far. I have had so many usability issues with my Mac that does not exist in KDE/Linux. E.g. Apple confining the GUI and not including basic functionality. Specifically: - I really miss a decent address bar in finder that can be edited directly - some windows on mac are always on top, preventing access to other windows. E.g. Password dialogs for encrypted hard drives.…

Coming from the Windows and Linux worlds, I had similar frustrations with the primitive Mac UI. Mostly a better keyboard shortcuts/window timer fixed them for me (Magnet). There are still some issues but they are relatively minor.

What made me stick with the platform though was never having to worry about drivers, and updates being polite and patient, and not being bombarded with a billion ads everywhere like in Windows or Ubuntu. Also not having to drop into the command line to change monitor settings is nice. And the M1 is just soooo nice, fast and quiet and cool, no x86 laptop is even remotely close anymore. They put the ThinkPads, my previous favorite, to shame.

So yeah, to your point, the dumbed down UI is a pain, but the rest of the experience is so much nicer now. I'd take needing a few extra apps over having to go back to desktop Linux...

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#85

Post by paldepind2 » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 7:26 AM UTC

Gualdrapo wrote: post #71

paldepind2 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One needs only to avoid GTK stuff, Electron, and Windows Software, and one gets perfectly consistent behavior. So as long as one avoids all the inconsistencies then one gets consistent shortcuts? ;) Only using Qt apps on Linux is very hard. A lot of good apps are GTK or Electron. On macOS there is no GTK & Qt divide and Electron apps are very good at implementing macOS shortcuts. Hence you get more consistent bindi…

> Cmd+Shift+/ to search all menus is also super useful and I don't think you can do that on KDE. Not sure if this is what you're talking about, but KDE now has KCommandBar (or some name like that?), a HUD menu that can be invoked with Ctrl+Alt+I. Though I as a KDE fan concede that the need for some GTK stuff is kinda disappointing, for me Firefox and Inkscape (can't care less about Electron stuff, though). Inkscape A…

Yes, KCommandBar seems to do the same thing. Cool! Thanks for sharing.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#86

Post by noodlebear » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 7:29 AM UTC

JacobSeated wrote: post #64

KDE is a better desktop environment than MacOS, by far. I have had so many usability issues with my Mac that does not exist in KDE/Linux. E.g. Apple confining the GUI and not including basic functionality. Specifically: - I really miss a decent address bar in finder that can be edited directly - some windows on mac are always on top, preventing access to other windows. E.g. Password dialogs for encrypted hard drives.…

Is this relevant to the submission, or simply a spot you’ve interpreted as a convenient one to air all of your grievances about Macs? I guess not only air them, but state them in a way where only your approach is correct (“erroneous” is inappropriate to apply to a UI decision that differs from your preference, for example)

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#87

Post by spyremeown » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 7:30 AM UTC

samtheprogram wrote: post #32

gattilorenz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because Darwin is half abandoned, while FreeBSD is actively maintained and with plenty of drivers

Darwin is still open sourced, but mainly because of drivers and differences in certain other things (threads maybe, Mach ports / IPC, etc) that don’t have the integration or implementation with existing software is a major headwind to attempting a full encompassing Darwin OS. PureDarwin was (is?) an attempt that hasn’t been able to break through those headwinds.

Is Darwin used for something other than research? I'd really love to see some homebrew stuff with this kernel.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#88

Post by solardev » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 7:30 AM UTC

timeon wrote: post #82

JacobSeated wrote: post #64

KDE is a better desktop environment than MacOS, by far. I have had so many usability issues with my Mac that does not exist in KDE/Linux. E.g. Apple confining the GUI and not including basic functionality. Specifically: - I really miss a decent address bar in finder that can be edited directly - some windows on mac are always on top, preventing access to other windows. E.g. Password dialogs for encrypted hard drives.…

> - "Cut" does not work for files in finder, severely complicating moving files Luckily macos is extensible so you can create your own service for that.

Mac has a different workflow for this. You copy and then "paste and move" at the destination, instead of the standard cut. But same result.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#89

Post by mattlutze » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 7:30 AM UTC

I struggle with chasing after the MacOS appearance.

It feels in passing like a lot of work to build a skin/UI that will always be a few generations of the design language behind and not quite there, just given the volume of staff at Apple and them being the ones defining where their design language goes.

Like a choice between a Porsche and, according to Google a Zotye -- they'll look close but one will be the obvious "genuine article."

Would it not be better to take all that talent and consider a fresh approach to the user experience of a personal computer?

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#90

Post by rich_sasha » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 7:35 AM UTC

croh wrote: post #70

rich_sasha wrote: post #67

The one thing keeping me on MacOS is that it is "*nix that works". I have never found Ubuntu / Linux to be as stable; worrying about updates breaking things, updates indeed breaking things, drivers randomly stopping working, googling in desperation for half-baked fixes online, randomly trying different options in some dotfile until stuff works etc. Mac just works; maybe there are features that Linux would give me, bu…

I don't know what is the last time you used linux but lately there is great improvements in user experience. I know non-techie people using Linux Mint/ubuntu without any hassels.

I'm writing this from my Ubuntu desktop (LTE). Just a few months ago some update broke everything (graphics). Then somehow I fixed it, but it broke again on restart. It took best part of a week for me to fix.

You might say it wasn't the best distribution for reliability, or that graphics with NVidia are always an issue etc. but the fact remains that, for me, for an OS to "just work out of the box", MacOS is much better.

[I'm also not a Linux n00b, been using it for over a decade, though not an expert for sure]