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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#101

Post by shadowgovt »

Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

Possibly. The other possibility is it will make it impossible to buy an iPhone in Europe.

It certainly puts a huge incentive on Apple to figure out technical solutions to problems like "How do we get other browser engines on this thing without compromising a hundred OS assumptions, battery performance, or user security," but it's also possible Apple decides that's a no-go and it'll cost more than 25% of annual revenue to comply, at which point the winning market strategy is opt-out. That's fine; win-win for the EU market because it clears the playing field for a European-originated competitor to the iPhone.

ETA I forgot the third possibility: Apple decides it will cost more than 10% (and later 20%) of revenue to comply, but the 5% bump in value is still worth it and they write off non-compliance as a tax to do business in Europe. Then if the EU tries to impose structural or behavioral changes, we're back to square one on the question of whether those changes cost more than (now) 5% of Apple's revenue.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#103

Post by bloppe »

amelius wrote: post #75
rvschuilenburg wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This almost sounds too good to be true. What are the odds of this being watered down, or being delayed into eternity?

Or how about Apple crippling their own device whenever someone wants to do any of these things?

Sounds like a big fine for Apple.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#104

Post by vlozko »

bloppe wrote: post #81

It blows my mind how many people have bought into Apple's position on this. No, Apple restricting your freedom does not afford you greater security. You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. If you're not confident in your ability to tell shady from legit, just stick to the App Store. Don't demand that Apple treat the rest of us like children just because that's how you would like to be treated.

This is a very myopic view of what it’s like for the elderly and less tech savvy. Most aren’t capable of telling the difference and yet they constantly find themselves unknowingly getting scammed. I take it you’ve never had to clean out a horribly malware infested computer for a mother-in-law before?

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#105

Post by MichaelCollins »

bloppe wrote: post #81

It blows my mind how many people have bought into Apple's position on this. No, Apple restricting your freedom does not afford you greater security. You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. If you're not confident in your ability to tell shady from legit, just stick to the App Store. Don't demand that Apple treat the rest of us like children just because that's how you would like to be treated.

The apparent desire for paternalism unnerves me. Any time people are free to choose who they associate with, they run the risk of coming across bad actors who would scam them or worse. In most domains of life, we have special protections for the senile elderly and children but everybody else is given freedom and subsequently expected to develop and exercise a sense of good judgement, because freedom is more important than security.

But in the specific case of iphones, the argument is made that giving rational level-headed adults the freedom to associate with the software they wish would imperil children and the elderly, and you don't have to look far to find somebody arguing that that risk outweigh any other consideration. If this belief were likely to be limited to iphones I wouldn't really care, I'd simply not buy an iphone. But I fear special-case exceptions don't stay that way forever, and I fear Apple's style of paternalism (which is very profitable) will inevitably spread and become difficult if not impossible to avoid unless stomped out soon.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#106

Post by thefz »

riffraff wrote: post #37
Gareth321 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, extremely low. The DMA has passed final debate and review, so it's not changing now. The last step is basically a formality. The beauty of the EU is that corporate financial influence is far less pervasive than even in the governments of member nations. The level of abstraction is just too large. Apple, Google, Amazon, et al., can wage a PR campaign, but it's highly unlikely to succeed.

> The beauty of the EU is that corporate financial influence is far less pervasive than even in the governments of member nations. [citation needed] The reason this regulations went through easily is that they mostly target foreign operators. It's not the same with all regulations, the EU is a lobbying battleground as much as everywhere else, you can see that in most things, big corps just go through governments when…

> The reason this regulations went through easily is that they mostly target foreign operators.

Because 1) foreign operators do the fuck they want in unregulated markets such as the US and 2) there are no such operators in the EU because they have already been regulated

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#107

Post by dane-pgp »

sylware wrote: post #85

They forgot the noscript/basic (x)html interoperability for the web. That does enable the possibility to use other browsers than big tech browsers. It is related to the "core messaging interoperability". And making core messaging functionality interoperable is fairly not enough because we already know what they will do to lock users on their software: they will accelerate their planned obsolescence, will increase the…

> They forgot the noscript/basic (x)html interoperability for the web.

I agree that interoperability on the web should be protected at least as much as on mobile, since the web as a platform has the potential to be more open than the tightly integrated mobile ecosystems.

Unfortunately, what that would look like in practice is harder to say, as I don't think governments could mandate "Semantic Web" versions of all websites, even though that would give true client choice and allow the building of complementary services.

My main disappointment with the legislation is that "core messaging interoperability" doesn't also require interoperability between social networks, since a Facebook user should be able to send a DM to a Twitter user, for example, and ActivityPub solves the more general issue of social network federation.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#109

Post by M2Ys4U »

Nextgrid wrote: post #72
rvschuilenburg wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This almost sounds too good to be true. What are the odds of this being watered down, or being delayed into eternity?

My worry is that it will just not be enforced, just like the GDPR. The GDPR wasn’t watered down but in the end it just wasn’t enforced (at least not enough) against the biggest offenders it was meant to regulate.

The DMA and DSA will be enforced by the Commission, rather than by member states' local authorities which - hopefully - will avoid the problems we've seen with the GDPR.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#110

Post by capableweb »

yoavm wrote: post #100
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

Interestingly enough, an iPhone that complies with these demands is actually the first iPhone I'd ever consider paying for. I wonder if this might actually increase adoption.

If "Install any software" becomes real and I can start writing software on Linux for iPhone, without requiring me to have a Mac, I'll become an instant iPhone fanboy as the hardware is second to none. It's the software that is stopping the phone from becoming the best one around.
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