You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else? • Hacker News Board

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#101

Post by Willwhatley » Mon, Nov 07, 2011, 5:51 AM UTC

mrleinad wrote: post #90

hello_moto wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big props to you. I mean it. Seriously 100% genuine. Because these days most people don't think the way you do. You are a rare breed. I think the biggest winner in our society are those who can ignore money (to some degree) and enjoy their life to the fullest by doing things that matters for themselves and other people. It is a very extremely hard mindset to achieve. Harder than working hard because that mindset requ…

I think that the ideal position for anyone would be to be able to quit their jobs, still be able to live a healthy life without being forced to work again. Of course, there´s each one of us definition of "healthy life". For some this must include a yatch or a huge house. For some others, being with friends and being able to fullfill their basic needs is enough. Me, I'd go for something in between. I don´t need a yatc…

yacht

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#102

Post by orochimaru » Mon, Nov 07, 2011, 6:44 AM UTC

I think with all those exclamation marks, it would have been fit if he had ended with "Let's quit together. I just forwarded my resignation to my boss."

However, since he didn't, I assume writing a blog post about this was just a way to let out the pent up frustration, thereby taking away from the credibility of the post.

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#103

Post by bluedanieru » Mon, Nov 07, 2011, 8:36 AM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #100

freemarketteddy wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your boss actually lets you make cool things then you are lucky....chances are that you are a salaried bitch who can code! How can you be happy when your boss makes much more money than you writing emails all day...point is that you should really be the boss having an assistant who can write emails!

I don't care how much my boss is making, I make enough money. How can you be happy worrying about everybody else's salaries?

I understand your opinion here, and in fact I sort of share it, but having myself been in a situation where I affected the balance sheet in the low seven-figure range (in a good way) and received in return a good review and a 'keep it up', i.e. no raise or bonus, I can completely sympathize. It is maddening when people are buying expensive cars and nice homes with profits made possible by your work.

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#104

Post by thecage411 » Mon, Nov 07, 2011, 8:52 AM UTC

dblock wrote: post #92

I think it's similar to owning vs. renting a house. Working for someone else is like renting. When rats are running through your kitchen you pickup your crap and leave. But while you live in this rented house you might repaint the walls and generally take great care of the place.

And most of the time, renting is a better investment! :)

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#105

Post by VonLipwig » Mon, Nov 07, 2011, 9:20 AM UTC

rick888 wrote: post #77

VonLipwig wrote: post #44

This guy finds 20 hours week. This means he is spending 60 hours a week working. Its not healthy. He names 5 tech companies. How many developers are there in the world? So what hundreds of thousands of developers have the potential to make a Google? I think not. In reality you will probably be happier sticking to employment and working on and launching a side project as and when inspiration strikes. Burning 20 hours…

"In reality you will probably be happier sticking to employment and working on and launching a side project as and when inspiration strikes. Burning 20 hours a week of your free time will likely lead to - in this guys case - divorce and for other people burnout." That will work until your employer makes the wrong business decision and the company goes out of business or there are budget cuts and you get laid off. Oh…

"That will work until your employer makes the wrong business decision and the company goes out of business or there are budget cuts and you get laid off."

That doesn't matter. This is no different from being self employed and making bad decisions yourself.

When you are employed you typically know if you job is safe enough as you have a fair idea of how the company is doing and have a feeling about how important you are to the company.

If you know you are dispensable and your company just lost a big contract you would worry. Otherwise you wouldn't. Self employment is very similar.

Regarding contracts, this is why it is very important to read your contract before signing. I have turned down a number of jobs due to unrealistic non-compete agreements and the potential employer owning discoveries I make in my own time.

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#106

Post by VonLipwig » Mon, Nov 07, 2011, 9:26 AM UTC

einhverfr wrote: post #88

VonLipwig wrote: post #44

This guy finds 20 hours week. This means he is spending 60 hours a week working. Its not healthy. He names 5 tech companies. How many developers are there in the world? So what hundreds of thousands of developers have the potential to make a Google? I think not. In reality you will probably be happier sticking to employment and working on and launching a side project as and when inspiration strikes. Burning 20 hours…

I disagree. Most small business owners in fact work at least 60 hrs/wk. There's a tremendous difference between work that is well integrated with family life (as self-employment can be) and work that's away from everyone else. Indeed if he is lucky he'd have his spouse helping with business administration.....

I think the chances are that if you are working 60hrs a week you are doing it wrong.

Working that amount of time for a month to power through a launch or get something done is fine.

However if you are working that amount of time week in, week out and have a family which you actually want to spend time with then it doesn't really matter where you work. You could work in your families living room. You would still be turned off to them for 8-12 hours a day.

If your single, this may be the life for you. If you work with your partner it may doable at times.

Realistically though, most people will not need to put in this much time. If they are there are a number of things they can do to reduce this time. You really do not need to work yourself into the ground to make a good living.

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#107

Post by einhverfr » Mon, Nov 07, 2011, 9:28 AM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #87

einhverfr wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, bring in other people onto projects who can do these other things.

Ooh ooh! I know this one! [bzzzzt] What is... a company! What'd I win?

It could be.

You could also be hiring a guy who does marketing to help you get more customers, give some other guy a sales commission for sending work your way, and so forth.

These things don't always require formal structures. You have more power as one who is self-employed rather than an employee.

The fact is there is nothing limiting this advice to developers. If you know how to do bookkeeping, for example, you can become self-employed and rent out your services to customers rather than having them hire an employee.

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#108

Post by einhverfr » Mon, Nov 07, 2011, 9:32 AM UTC

jeromeparadis wrote: post #95

einhverfr wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that as a self-employed consultant, you can fire bosses (we call them customers) that cause you too much trouble. It's a question of balance of power, and one should not underestimate that difference. Similarly with startups and investors. If you have the ability to walk away and find another job, that gives you power. This is a big reason CEO's make obscene amounts of money in this country while fl…

I agree. As long as you can afford to. But even when you think you can't afford to, you're probably better off firing the client that gives you to much trouble. As for having a startup with investors, if the fun isn't there anymore you always have the option of walking away. Walking away isn't for everyone, though. Getting to the point where it's an option in your arsenal, having the confidence and experience of know…

"Walking away isn't for everyone, though. Getting to the point where it's an option in your arsenal, having the confidence and experience of knowing you'll find something else to make a living by yourself is what separate entrepreneurs and employees."

And this is exactly why telling people that this is not for everyone is harmful to everyone. If all the applicants for a job can walk away and find something else, the company has to be far better at keeping them and the companies which add too much BS end up dying rather quickly.

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#109

Post by freemarketteddy » Mon, Nov 07, 2011, 9:34 AM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #100

freemarketteddy wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your boss actually lets you make cool things then you are lucky....chances are that you are a salaried bitch who can code! How can you be happy when your boss makes much more money than you writing emails all day...point is that you should really be the boss having an assistant who can write emails!

I don't care how much my boss is making, I make enough money. How can you be happy worrying about everybody else's salaries?

not everybody....only the person who tells me what to do ,writes emails all day and makes almost double my base and at least 5 times my bonus.

If the the desire to not get fucked over is being selfish...then so be it!

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#110

Post by einhverfr » Mon, Nov 07, 2011, 9:35 AM UTC

willpower101 wrote: post #75

Homunculiheaded wrote: post #32

Try an experiment, grab a piece of paper and write out the top ten programmers that first come to your mind. Now next to their names write out which company they work for. There was a time when I was tossing around the idea of starting my own business, something just wasn't clicking for me. Then I did this experiment, and I realized that most the programmers who inspired me to be a programmer worked for someone else…

I have the opposite problem. I'm an entrepreneur first, and a developer fifth ;) But getting dev's to see their own potential as a partner is like pulling teeth.

Of course taking on a business partner is almost exactly like getting married without the sex. So it really pays to get to know potential business partners first.