You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else? • Hacker News Board

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#71

Post by DanielRibeiro » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 10:18 PM UTC

naner wrote: post #48

I'm getting tired of this crap. You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else? Some people would much rather take a paycheck then try to run a business for obvious reasons. Think about the biggest websites you visit or use on a regular basis: Facebook, Twitter, Flickr, Foursquare, or even Google for that matter -- all of them were created by developers who created something from little more than an idea in…

You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

John Resig, creator of jQuery (who also joined Y Combinator a long time ago), answer this question when he joined Khan Academy[1]. Very intersting point of view.

[1] http://www.startupsopensourced.com/2011/06/21/john-resig-dis...

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#72

Post by awolf » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 10:57 PM UTC

"My point is: an hour here and an hour there adds up! You have time, its just a matter of what you choose to do with it."

This trivializes the situation for full time employed programmers. Sure, you have spare hours intermixed throughout your work day, but these are not _productive_ hours. Your brain is worn out due to the effort spent in your 9 to 5 and distracted since when you're not at your job you have all sorts of other life responsibilities to manage (eat, exercise, socialize, family).

The author has a busy family life and a full time job and is still able to find 20 hours a week to work on his own thing. I find this very impressive.

I worked like this for a time before leaving my full time job last August. I found full time + half time + the rest of life was unsustainable. At first I made progress but quickly the rest of my life began to suffer. My relationship with my girlfriend became strained. I barely saw my friends or did things I enjoyed. Burnout started to appear. I got to the point where I realized that none of my programming hours were as productive as they once were. I was working more but getting about the same amount done.

I'm not saying it's not possible. It's just not as easy as he is making it sound. He is right that as a developer I was sitting on a gold mine but the mining didn't really begin until I quit my day job and focused.

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#73

Post by zem » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 11:26 PM UTC

precisely because i'm a developer. i want to spend my day writing code, not dealing with the myriad other concerns of running a business. (and, to a lesser but still significant extent, i want the security of a steady salary while i do so; i'm not by nature much of a risk-taker)

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#74

Post by jwatte » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 11:46 PM UTC

There's a whole class of interesting, valuable challenges that you'll never get close to working on when you're alone and bootstrapping. Building value at a larger scale, as part of a larger team, can be equally fulfilling, as long as the team is great.

Also, while Google, Twitter and Facebook are great outcomes, there's a 1000:1 chance against your particular idea. It's 10:1 you'll be able to start it at all, then 10:1 you'll survive until funding/bootstrap, and then 10:1 you'll exit. If you want the best expected value (in dollars) for your time, go work for wall street firms!

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#75

Post by willpower101 » Sun, Nov 06, 2011, 11:48 PM UTC

Homunculiheaded wrote: post #32

Try an experiment, grab a piece of paper and write out the top ten programmers that first come to your mind. Now next to their names write out which company they work for. There was a time when I was tossing around the idea of starting my own business, something just wasn't clicking for me. Then I did this experiment, and I realized that most the programmers who inspired me to be a programmer worked for someone else…

I have the opposite problem. I'm an entrepreneur first, and a developer fifth ;) But getting dev's to see their own potential as a partner is like pulling teeth.

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#76

Post by rick888 » Mon, Nov 07, 2011, 12:11 AM UTC

Homunculiheaded wrote: post #32

Try an experiment, grab a piece of paper and write out the top ten programmers that first come to your mind. Now next to their names write out which company they work for. There was a time when I was tossing around the idea of starting my own business, something just wasn't clicking for me. Then I did this experiment, and I realized that most the programmers who inspired me to be a programmer worked for someone else…

Some people just aren't interested in running a business, which is fine. However, I see things in a different light. I love developing web software. It's been a passion of mine since I was 13.

I've been working as a developer for the past 10 years and I've come to a point where I'm tired of working for other people. Your path is in their hands and many times, you will be forced down a path you don't want to take. I've seen many companies go down the toilet because of decisions that were beyond my control. It has made me despise my passion.

I would rather toil my life away on something that will make me rich rather than someone else.

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#77

Post by rick888 » Mon, Nov 07, 2011, 12:22 AM UTC

VonLipwig wrote: post #44

This guy finds 20 hours week. This means he is spending 60 hours a week working. Its not healthy. He names 5 tech companies. How many developers are there in the world? So what hundreds of thousands of developers have the potential to make a Google? I think not. In reality you will probably be happier sticking to employment and working on and launching a side project as and when inspiration strikes. Burning 20 hours…

"In reality you will probably be happier sticking to employment and working on and launching a side project as and when inspiration strikes. Burning 20 hours a week of your free time will likely lead to - in this guys case - divorce and for other people burnout."

That will work until your employer makes the wrong business decision and the company goes out of business or there are budget cuts and you get laid off.

Oh yeah, and if you work for any technology company and have a side project, you better check any contract you signed. Most say that anything you work in your off time is company property.

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#78

Post by AznHisoka » Mon, Nov 07, 2011, 12:33 AM UTC

naner wrote: post #48

I'm getting tired of this crap. You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else? Some people would much rather take a paycheck then try to run a business for obvious reasons. Think about the biggest websites you visit or use on a regular basis: Facebook, Twitter, Flickr, Foursquare, or even Google for that matter -- all of them were created by developers who created something from little more than an idea in…

I used to have the belief that most web businesses are uninspiring and useless, but if you go down that rabbit hole, you may as say every business out there is unimportant. Louis Vuitton and Prada just makes us more vain, and waste money. Who needs iPhones anyway when a regular ole phone can do? McDonalds kills people. Wall Street causes the recession. Cars? They pollute the air and are destroying the Earth!

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#79

Post by einhverfr » Mon, Nov 07, 2011, 12:59 AM UTC

naner wrote: post #48

I'm getting tired of this crap. You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else? Some people would much rather take a paycheck then try to run a business for obvious reasons. Think about the biggest websites you visit or use on a regular basis: Facebook, Twitter, Flickr, Foursquare, or even Google for that matter -- all of them were created by developers who created something from little more than an idea in…

I think the article is a little off-base too even if I generally agree with the title. The fact is that although it takes time and effort to get going, working for yourself, as part of a flexible team is something I don't think one can trade for anything.

The open source world is becoming one where the aggregate weight of independent developers is way larger than the weight of corporate contributions (as critical as those may be in some areas). I'd hence say "you don't have to come up with ideas. Get a few customers and see what they need!"

In the end, working for yourself gives you important things you cannot get from any company. These include:

1) Once mature, most businesses fail gracefully. You wont get laid off and so you get more economic security than you would otherwise.

2) Freedom: You can always fire any of your bosses (we call them "customers") if they cause you too much trouble.

3) Strength in negotiation means higher wages

4) You can integrate your work and family life in ways others can't. You can set your own hours and move them around however it works best.

The economy is healthiest when there are more self-employed individuals around and fewer employers or employees, for obvious reasons. As was once said, "too much capitalism does not mean too many capitalists, but too few."

Re: You're a developer, so why do you work for someone else?

#80

Post by einhverfr » Mon, Nov 07, 2011, 1:00 AM UTC

diego wrote: post #6

Been there, done that. Being a developer is a small fraction of what you need in order to create a successful product. If you are the kind of person who can do it, you don't need to read posts like these. I don't know about this guy, but it looks like he hasn't done it, and he has little idea of what lies ahead. Best of luck to him.

That's where flexible teams come in, and being able to bring in other individuals who can contribute the missing pieces.