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Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#101

Post by lettergram »

terracatta wrote: post #65
citilife wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was actually going to point that out. IMO from what I've seen of parents are that people who bring their children at a young-ish age to a therapist have a different issue. Especially "being to hyper" or "being unable to focus" have a different issue. Children are supposed to be outside moving 8-12 hours a day, have you seen puppies? They need something similar. Instead many parents give their children tablets, plop…

> Every child I know diagnosed with ADHD had parents who didn't want to deal with them You must not know many parents then. Parents I know that have children with ADHD recognize their children are struggling beyond simple hyperactivity. These are children that are markedly behind their peers in childhood milestones regardless of their family upbringing, education, and socio-economic status. These are children that ha…

Couldn’t the posters point about lack of parental engagement be the root cause for being behind their peers?

I’m sorry, it doesn’t seem like you’re really challenging the argument.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#102

Post by lettergram »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #100

It’s worth mentioning that ADHD also increases the risk of depression. Along with anxiety, depression is one of the most common comorbidities particularly in people with undiagnosed ADHD. I didn’t take ADHD meds as a kid, so I can’t speak to their effect on me. But when diagnosed as an adult, I had suffered nearly my whole life with chronic depression and anxiety. Both reached a crisis level a few years back, which w…

> worth mentioning that ADHD also increases the risk of depression

I don’t think that’s true, I thought it was a correlation, not causation.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#103

Post by falcolas »

doliveira wrote: post #92
falcolas wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The condition. It's abso-fucking-lutely the condition. Executive Dysfunction means you're screaming in your head to stand up and get work done, but your brain just keeps browsing hacker news. And not just monthly or weekly, but hourly. Sometimes even every few minutes. Diagnosed or undiagnosed.

I wonder if it's a "horoscope reading" kind of feeling, but I just identify so much with these descriptions of ADHD.

Well, 5% of the population in general is the expected ratio of people with ADHD, but only 2% of the adult population is diagnosed with it, and it doesn't magically go away when you become an adult.

So, there's definitely a chance. Two thoughts:

- Everyone will occasionally exhibit some ADHD symptoms, the question is how often. Monthly? Probably not a problem. Hourly, or every few minutes? Probably is a problem.

- See a professional. Self diagnosis can't get you the help you need.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#104

Post by Avamander »

lettergram wrote: post #102
eyelidlessness wrote: post #100

It’s worth mentioning that ADHD also increases the risk of depression. Along with anxiety, depression is one of the most common comorbidities particularly in people with undiagnosed ADHD. I didn’t take ADHD meds as a kid, so I can’t speak to their effect on me. But when diagnosed as an adult, I had suffered nearly my whole life with chronic depression and anxiety. Both reached a crisis level a few years back, which w…

> worth mentioning that ADHD also increases the risk of depression I don’t think that’s true, I thought it was a correlation, not causation.

It doesn't matter what you think. It's fairly obvious even without any research that losing some amount of agency and struggling with things others don't can impact someone very negatively.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#105

Post by falcolas »

Avamander wrote: post #84
echelon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nor is the structure of life after school. (Offices? 9 AM start times?) Kids with ADHD can go on to find incredible success in breaking the rules.

Sure they can, people endure and cope with a lot of things. That's a really low and unnecessarily painful approach though. They could do even better, do things they want to do, when they aren't hindered as much by the disorder. I really think the comparison with glasses is apt, sure someone can squint their eyes and sit a bit closer at times, but why should they? We'd call it neglect to force someone to cope with bad…

Especially with the plethora of evidence about how much harm "masking" can cause for a neurodivergant individual.

Because that mask can never really be taken off.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#106

Post by ericd »

Djvacto wrote: post #66
ericd wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe don't take it personally, I think they're saying that much of society is doing it wrong. EDIT: But yes, they’re also saying that many parents are doing it wrong, and they’re assigning much of the blame to parenting. My point was that when a huge percentage of parents are “doing it wrong”, maybe there’s some wider systemic thing at play. Like economic forces that make people work harder than they should if they…

Even if I wasn't someone with ADHD, the comment in question is dismissive of what ADHD actually is, as well as the very-valid treatment of getting medication. Like I said in my comment, they pointed out some real problems, but made sweeping generalizations, mostly negative, about the people in question. ADHD is not well understood by a lot of people, and someone with or without ADHD who is well-versed in the topic po…

They said it was infuriating and they were very tempted to just say “fuck you”, they’re very clearly taking it personally, it’s not meant as a dismissal. I’m just trying to help them not feel personally attacked, but clearly I did that poorly. Sorry about that.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#107

Post by CodeMage »

memish wrote: post #89
CodeMage wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more horrifying to me that HN has turned into a kind of place where people will confidently assert their judgment something they have no knowledge about. My son has ADHD. There are other ADHD cases in the family, so we knew that could be the case with him, but we waited until he was in middle school to even try to check, because we didn't want him to "depend on drugs", as the trope goes. We got the diagnosis fro…

Glasses are not drugs. That's not at all equivalent. These drugs are altering brain chemistry and one's natural state so they fit into the unnatural environment that is school. It's horrifying to me that people are doing mental gymnastics to defend drugging kids who don't want to sit at a desk for hours every day memorizing useless information. If I was a kid today I'd fit the qualifications and be drugged to better…

Again, this is not about wanting to sit at a desk for hours every day. He's perfectly content to sit at a desk for hours every day, in front of his computer, and yet he'll have the same problems focusing on most things.

Yes, the medication alters brain chemistry and one's "natural state". Do you honestly think that we have the science to realize that it alters brain chemistry, but we don't have the science to realize that some brain chemistries are drastically different from others?

As for the whole "natural state" thing, let's not indulge in appeals to nature here. I forgot where I heard "dog poop and arsenic are both found in nature, but you wouldn't eat either", but it stuck with me. Schizophrenia is a "natural state" for some people. So is depression, or autism. Should we just leave everyone in their "natural state", because it's sacred for some reason? Hence my comment about glasses: some people are naturally short-sighted, too, but they enjoy being able to see better.

Sure, school is an unnatural environment. Civilization is mostly an unnatural environment, too.

What infuriates me, though, is that people who haven't had to walk in my son's shoes -- or mine, but his are more important -- have the audacity to judge from their position of ignorance and declare all the effort and care we went through "a crime that future generations will be rightly horrified by".

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#108

Post by TrevorJ »

n8cpdx wrote: post #95
TrevorJ wrote: post #91

This doesn't surprise me. I've been prescribed Ritalin at times both as a child and an adult in small doses. It is a remarkable strong medication, and operates much like I imagine recreational drugs operate - there's a definite strong high, and an equally brutal comedown afterword. I would be extremely cautious about prescribing this to anyone, especially children unless nearly every other kind of intervention has be…

If you’re getting a high from it, your dose is too high. If there is a “brutal” come down, your dose is too high. What do you consider a “small” dose?

First off, do you are assuming that everyone reacts to drugs in the same way? I was taking 1/5th to 1/10th of a 'normal' dose. Secondly, if you do a few minutes of research online you will find that both issues (the high, and the comedown) is not at all an uncommon complaint. Ritalin is a CNS stimulant.

With respect, you are being a bit too condescending relative to the amount of knowledge of the issue you posses.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#109

Post by lettergram »

Djvacto wrote: post #52
citilife wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was actually going to point that out. IMO from what I've seen of parents are that people who bring their children at a young-ish age to a therapist have a different issue. Especially "being to hyper" or "being unable to focus" have a different issue. Children are supposed to be outside moving 8-12 hours a day, have you seen puppies? They need something similar. Instead many parents give their children tablets, plop…

I started medication as an adult, lived in a home with two involved & present parents, never saw any doctor about ADHD until I was an adult, and was never an unhappy child. Looking back, I clearly had ADHD, but since it's a condition that's unique and specific symptoms vary per person, I just happened to have mechanisms that worked and got lucky with how my brain patterns fit into school from Elementary - High School…

As you pointed out ADHD is a disease, what’s the cause?

Do you have adhd, or do the drugs help you focus and you want that?

Calling it a disease implies something is wrong, but having trouble focusing isn’t “wrong”. It’s a skill one can acquire and may have a variety of factors impacting it (from genetics to environment to mental management).

That’s the issue I personally take with these kind of discussions. Medication may help you focus (coffee does that), but do people who need coffee in the morning to focus well have a disease? Hardly.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#110

Post by mesh472 »

connicpu wrote: post #86
jobu wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the parent of a child with ADHD that is medicated, it seems completely plausible that it could cause depression. When my kid has had too high a dosage (or accidentally takes a double dose) she's like a zombie, completely flat affect, and very little motivation. It's like it drains her life away. Part of the problem is that it's very difficult to get the right dosage for any given day because diet, metabolism, and…

Extended release on the lower end of dosage + self-medicating with caffeine as a booster has been my go-to for about 15 years now. As an adult who's been taking it since middle school I can say that, while it's had its ups and downs, overall life is better with it than the times I've had to go without due to insurance disruptions or moving and having to find a new doctor who will prescribe it.

This has been my experience almost exactly. Low dose XR + controlled caffeine usage. Been about 3 years for me now.
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