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The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

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Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#101

Post by lazide »

ahmedalsudani wrote: post #58
AJ007 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also they have a vaccine that may not work.

It helps prevent infection and temper symptoms but it's not as effective as the mRNA vaccines. Something like 50% vs 90% though that could be old data.

At least one new variant can burn through even double shot vaccinated and boosted in extreme cases. Due to various factors outside of my control, my toddler has now gotten Covid 4 times in the last year (10 months really). Antigen and PCR confirmed.

Most recently, a minor window of exposure got my oldest sick (double shot vaccinated), and taking care of both of them eventually got me sick (double shot vaccinated, boosted, AND took care of my toddler in isolation for weeks at a time during his most infectious times the prior 3 times). I’ve had side effects/immune response before obviously, but never tested positive. This time I tested positive.

No major adverse symptoms at least, but sick like with a moderate flu for a week+ despite all that is no fun.

Folks with no prior exposure and a weaker vaccine? Yikes.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#102

Post by jacktribe »

I've been trying to understand CCP's reasoning for these draconian measures. Even if you haven't seen the Twitter videos showing bags of live cats and dogs being being beaten to death with sticks, the children separated from their parents, the alarms on the doors, the economic numbers, you can tell that this does't make any sense.

Some theories:

- Strip people of absolutely all rights, make them feel helpless. Later gradually restore some rights so that they feel like they've gained freedoms, but not all.

- Keep very low COVID numbers on paper, say the west is unsafe and ban travel, preventing the outflow of money from China to the west.

- Crush the economy and nationalize private companies even further than they are now. Perhaps even nationalize foreign companies that operate in China (see Russia).

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#103

Post by inglor_cz »

Cookingboy wrote: post #12
ceejayoz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China tried to actively cover up the infection in Wuhan. News got out, doctors posted on social media, video on Reddit showed people dying in the streets. China's great at suppressing protests, but informationally they're still porous. If millions of Chinese were dying of COVID, we'd know it. If suppressing information about deaths worked as well as you're asserting, they wouldn't have to publicly lock down Shanghai,…

>China tried to actively cover up the infection in Wuhan. News got out, doctors posted on social media A simple visit to the Wikipedia article on Covid timeline showed that to be false. >video on Reddit showed people dying in the streets. That was literally just a drunk guy falling on street. Covid doesn't just make people drop dead while walking on the street lol. America suffered a million Covid deaths and we have…

"Covid doesn't just make people drop dead while walking on the street lol. America suffered a million Covid deaths and we have zero videos of people just drop dead on the street from it."

Falling down unconscious isn't the same as dropping dead. And mere bystanders cannot always tell the difference at first sight.

We had a case of a woman collapsing in the street in Brno, Czech Republic, confirmed by the rescuers who picked her up and drove her to the nearest hospital. Low oxygenation of blood can make you pass out, and Covid pneumonia can cause your blood oxygen to drop to dangerously low levels.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#104

Post by munk-a »

jtc331 wrote: post #90
whimsicalism wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I think that avoiding 3 million deaths might be worthy of some level of praise but agree to disagree :)

You are assuming their reported death numbers are accurate. You are also assuming the deaths caused by these policies won’t end up exceeding that number. Neither assumptions are backed by evidence.

That's exactly my concern too - right now China's response looks great on the world stage... but the pandemic isn't over yet and China rolled out an extremely ineffective vaccine that leaves their population quite vulnerable.

If this disaster spreads to other Chinese metropolitan areas it would be devastating.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#105

Post by afiori »

whimsicalism wrote: post #53
rrsmtz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We" didn't kill anybody, they died of a highly transmissible and novel disease for which there was no cure and no vaccine for over a year. There was no possible way that death could have been completely averted. Yes, there were policy choices that could have been made differently, that would have potentially slowed the spread. We implemented many, decided not to implement others, and had a difficult time enforcing t…

> There was no possible way that death could have been averted. Respectfully, I disagree. If there was no possible way to avert it, how did China avert the vast majority of equivalent deaths? The action/omission distinction is for judging who started a fight in a schoolyard, not for judging the actions of nation-states.

> If there was no possible way to avert it, how did China avert the vast majority of equivalent deaths?

By being ready to lock people in their homes and preventing them to even go buy groceries.

Are you proposing that western countries should/could do this?

We could also ban all sugar/sweeteners, alcohol, driving and sitting still for more than 6 hours a day; this would also save a lot of lives.

You can tune a Paperclip Optimizer to any single good metric, it does not mean that it is a good idea.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#106

Post by east2west »

whimsicalism wrote: post #67
ejb999 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>how did China avert the vast majority of equivalent deaths? Do you really believe they 'averted 'the deaths? or is it more likely they hid the truth. I vote for the latter; they don't have a good track record.

> Do you really believe they 'averted 'the deaths? or is it more likely they hid the truth. I vote for the latter; they don't have a good track record. They would not be able to hide infection on the level that the US has had it - antibody tests from travelers from China would show it trivially, social media would show it. The idea that China has secretly had 3 million covid deaths and widespread infection without an…

Anyone can look up The Great Leap Forward and official coverup of ZhengZhou flood death this year to know that CCP covering up death is NOT a conspiracy theory.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#107

Post by version_five »

ahmedalsudani wrote: post #58
AJ007 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also they have a vaccine that may not work.

It helps prevent infection and temper symptoms but it's not as effective as the mRNA vaccines. Something like 50% vs 90% though that could be old data.

Afaik those numbers are for covid classic. For Omicron et al, I don't think the mRNA vaccines do anything except "prevent severe infection". They dont stop catching or transmitting it. No idea how the chinese and other vaccines fare against the new variants.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#108

Post by wonnage »

dqpb wrote: post #19
jaqalopes wrote: post #8

I lived in Shanghai for 5 years and have many friends and business connects there. I would never, ever want to be seen as carrying water for the CCP--the day they abolished term limits for Xi was the day I started planning my exit. I've been following this situation for almost a month now and in one sense it's every bit as bad as it looks. An inadequate and inhumane policy being enforced by an out of touch, or perhap…

> An inadequate and inhumane policy being enforced by an out of touch, or perhaps even uncaring, government The inevitable result of centralized control.

Any time we humans have tried decentralized control, we've found a way to turn it back into centralized control.

Hell, just look at the universe. What started as a random distribution of gas still found ways to condense into literally an infinitely dense point.

Any minor power imbalance in a decentralized system will be exploited and provide the cumulative advantage over time to turn it back into a centralized system.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#109

Post by moralestapia »

whimsicalism wrote: post #77
thereisnospork wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the lack of an endgame. For better or worse, Covid is endemic in Europe and the continental US[0]. All it takes is one false-negative test at the border[1] and a tourist or business traveler could easily create tens of millions of potential infectees (airport -> subway -> secondary city) to requisite additional lockdowns of tens of millions of people. [0]And quite probably large parts of Asia, includin…

[flagged]

>China's elderly are even worse anti-vaxxers than we are

And that's within the scope of their rights, as stated in documents like UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

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