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The only thing we should be talking about is the climate crisis

latimes.com

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Re: The only thing we should be talking about is the climate crisis

#101

Post by downrightmike »

vasco wrote: post #16

> Nothing matters as much as our bone-headed, mass-suicidal march toward extreme-weather oblivion. Not COVID-19, not the invasion of Ukraine, not even “The Godfather.” Says a reporter living in Los Angeles, the 49th most expensive city in the world to live in. For a lot of people, what they need to talk about is how they're getting their next meal, how they're going to make rent, or survive a current war. Maybe go to…

Why do you think russia invaded Ukraine? Ukraine was working with Shell oil to extract vast oil deposits that are only able to be reached with modern tech. If they got that oil, it would make them the 14th largest oil state in the world. Ukraine also happens to be the main pipeline the USSR sold through. Ukraine, when it gets that oil will be able to side step russia and sell to Europe. Also of importance is that the independent zones that sided with russia happen to be right on top of deposits. The only thing russia has going for it is oil and they need to keep their monopoly. What this has to do with climate change is that russia would have to modernize all their soviet infrastructure to get costs down and also extend their pipelines to china, but it is easier to keep being dirty and crush the competition.

Re: The only thing we should be talking about is the climate crisis

#102

Post by mwint »

kgran wrote: post #40
mrfusion wrote: post #9

I’m a full on believer. I even own an EV but I think this alarmism is just making people numb. I think there’s a whole generation out there that never read “the boy who cried wolf”.

>I even own an EV I don't want to be that guy, but driving an EV (unless you drive some sort of electric bicycle or scooter) is not that environmentally friendly as the manufacturers and marketing people want you to believe. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_impact_on_the_environmen...

If I'm reading that graph right, it looks like driving an EV is about halfway between an ICE car and no car? A 50% reduction seems pretty decent to me.

Re: The only thing we should be talking about is the climate crisis

#103

Post by mekoka »

The article's tone answers its own question. There's a consensus on change, not on crisis. Let's have an honest conversation about that. What do we truly know? What does the data really indicate? What can we do? What should we do? Please leave your emotions and opinions at the door. Trying to prematurely wrap the conversation with alarmism is the reason for the eyerolls.

Re: The only thing we should be talking about is the climate crisis

#104

Post by egberts1 »

gr8tnwz wrote: post #47
egberts1 wrote: post #2

Here are some of the many of Los Angeles Times’ newspaper headlines that they used to help with their circulations: 1966 - Oil gone in 10 years 1968 - Overpopulation will spread worldwide 1969 - Everyone will disappear in a Cloud of Blue Steam in 1989 1970 - World will use up its natural resources by 2000 1970 - Urban citizens will require gas mask by 1985 1970 - Nitrogen buildup will make all lands unusable 1970 - D…

News organizations designing headlines for attention does not undermine the data driven truth; resource consumption is real. Sorry the modeling techniques haven’t been as perfect as you’d prefer. Your inability to be swayed by Anglo-gibberish is formidable but you’re a non-entity to me and I don’t have to optimize for your preferences. Sit back down in your bubble and accept on a rock of 7 billion+ you are just one.…

(yawn).

It’s a pet project of mine and a fun one at that (of many hobbies).

Re: The only thing we should be talking about is the climate crisis

#105

Post by mapster »

incomingpain wrote: post #84

From my perspective LATimes is often talking about climate change. I don't thoroughly read the LATimes but here's a selection of articles I've read from them. Like how Race is involved with climate change: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-03-18/race-enviro... Also how climate change is itself racist: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-02-13/climate-... Then also covering anti-climate change polit…

No post body was provided.

Re: The only thing we should be talking about is the climate crisis

#106

Post by verisimi »

baskethead wrote: post #58

I fully believe in the climate crisis but this sort of talk is religious extremism. This is what religious extremists say and if you dare to disobey oir question them, you are considered a heretic and should be essentially punished or killed. The New Left has turned into religious extremists. The climate crisis ISN'T the only thing we should be talking about. We also have problems with straight up pollution, and othe…

More than that, they are using religious touchstones to make their point.

Feeling guilty for existence and making things worse - is original sin.

Recycling, putting oneself to trouble and expense - is penance.

Scientist and politicians - are the priests.

Saving the earth - is heaven.

Re: The only thing we should be talking about is the climate crisis

#107

Post by wbsss4412 »

fullshark wrote: post #54
wbsss4412 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Says the commenter on a website where people treat six figure salaries like they are table stakes.

What's your point? Their attempt to empathize with the impoverished / war torn is fool hardy and they should try to remain clueless of other people's experiences and whine about their own problems?

How is climate change “whining about their own problems?”.

The LA times author was making the point that, to him and his readers, nothing matters as much as climate change. While what is happening in Ukraine is absolutely terrible, in his mind it does not reach the level of concern that climate does.

Parents response was “oh you’re so privileged”, and my point is that just about everyone on this site is. Frankly, their comment came across less like empathy and more like standard deflection.

Finally, climate change is only “our problem” in the sense that it’s primarily driven by the global rich and privileged. The people who will bear the worst of it are the poor in the global south who did little to contribute to the problem.

Re: The only thing we should be talking about is the climate crisis

#108

Post by titzer »

endisneigh wrote: post #67
titzer wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> developed countries lowering their quality of life I seriously disagree with this framing. Developed countries have been artificially inflating their quality of life through cheap energy available from burning fossil fuels. This is an unsustainable practice that will a.) come to end due to exhaustion of said fuels b.) have significant, compounding externalities that are subject to incredible levels of reality disto…

Framing aside it’s a fact that the quality of life will be lowered for some. What you’re saying isn’t wrong, but it is what it is. This is a political issue, acting as if switching entirely to renewables will not result in some short term sacrifices is well, disingenuous.

I will still challenge these assertions. Lowering quality of life....to only a bazillion times better than a couple generations ago. When in reality the things people would be giving up are gluttonous wastes of energy like private jets and affordable vacations in the Caribbean (a new thing!).

Re: The only thing we should be talking about is the climate crisis

#109

Post by Cthulhu_ »

lordnacho wrote: post #48

The thing about a crisis is that it forces you to act on it, right now. Something like being invaded by your larger neighbor is a crisis, because you have to drop whatever you're doing and think about defense, immediately and with all your effort. The climate "crisis" is a slow boil. Ice caps melt a bit, water goes up a bit, a few houses fall in, no big deal. Drought happens, we have less food, we buy it from elsewhe…

The issue there is that global warming isn't a crisis, until it suddenly is due to a weather event. Ice caps melting: not a crisis. Flooding during a weather event: Crisis. Average temperatures in a year going up by .5 degrees: not a crisis. Forest fires destroying your house, or droughts causing crops to fail: Crisis. Glaciers and permafrost melting: not a crisis. Ocean gulf stream stopping, causing warm water to no longer go north and vice-versa, triggering a new ice age and all of Scandinavia, northern Europe and northern America to be covered in a kilometer of ice: that's a bit of an issue.

I get it, it's not an immediate crisis for most, so people are like "huh I remember hot summers back in MY day", confusing weather for climate and not seeing a need to act.

I'm pessimistic though. Any change now will be too little, too late; we've passed the point of no return, of climate collapse years ago. Things like: permafrost is melting, releasing sequestered CO2 and methane in the atmosphere at a rate greater than our own pollution. Polar caps and glaciers are not recovering, making the ocean absorb more heat (ice reflects sun rays back into space). Rising sea levels and the like make water push ice up and about, causing large ice sheets to break off of Antarctica and float into warmer waters. The list goes on. I'm not very optimistic. I just hope to die of old age before famine and war strike; given the current instability of existing unions like Europe and NATO, I'm not very positive about that either though.

Re: The only thing we should be talking about is the climate crisis

#110

Post by blisterpeanuts »

mrozbarry wrote: post #7

I think we should talk about: - How to be decent human beings to each other, and especially how to not kill each other - The media has too much power - Government over-reach Probably other things, but I don't know, these seem like way better hot-button issues.

I would put education at the top of the list. We in the U.S. should re-emphasize rigorous topics of STEM, history, language, philosophy, logic, civics etc., set high standards for passing and graduating middle and high school, so that our voting population will know how to think and reason. Without this, I don't see how we as a country can make rational, reasonable decisions to deal with complex issues like climate.
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