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Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

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Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#101

Post by prmoustache »

ChrisRR wrote: post #96
ComputerGuru wrote: post #5

This takes too many design cues from so-called "modern" web and mobile apps. What's with the lack of scrollbars in all the windows/dialogs? I can't tell that content has been truncated when a dialog opens up with the overflow ending on whitespace between two elements. There's also no fade or shadows, so everything is just suddenly cropped where a window ends. It's not even clear which elements have their own viewport…

The lack of scrollbars on desktop is a modern trend that annoys me Desktops aren't short of width, so why try and hide the scrollbars all the time, but programs seem happy to pack everything into navigation bars at the top where height is limited.

The functionnality of a scrollbar is provided by the touchpad, mouse with wheels , pageUp/Down and search tools so I have never missed it.

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#102

Post by prmoustache »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #84
ComputerGuru wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re joking about the lack of a title to tell you the name of the app, but not knowing which window has focus (thanks to titlebar shading) is a real problem. Microsoft completely disabled the coloring of the active window in Windows 10, then caved and re-added it as an off-by-default option. I can’t live without it on.

Well, in my admittedly limited experience of Windows 10, sometimes windows that look active, down to the blinking cursor, don't actually have the focus. So if all windows look the same, maybe people will get in the habit of clicking 10 times where they want to type, just to be sure. I'm thinking mostly about the UAC window asking for a password.

I don't really understand why you would want to click to have focus on a window.

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#103

Post by prmoustache »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #92
rishav_sharan wrote: post #63

Man, the HN crowd is tough. Folks here don't seem to like anything other than Win95 UI. I personally found the UI to be very slick and pretty. It seems very similar to Win11 and looks rather pretty. Would love to give it a try.

Seems like around Windows 95 was the last time designers put a thought to designing for usability and around the actual constraints in the medium. Most modern UIs seem to focus almost entirely on clean aesthetics, usually mindlessly drawing on conventions that serve limitations that exist in mobile, such as being really conservative about using screen space. I think desktop Firefox is an excellent example of this. A…

How many times do you really use that ≡ "burger" menu button of firefox in a day really? And after how many times do you end up having learned the keyboard shortcuts?

There are only a handful of them that don't have a keyboard shortcut.

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#104

Post by marginalia_nu »

prmoustache wrote: post #103
marginalia_nu wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like around Windows 95 was the last time designers put a thought to designing for usability and around the actual constraints in the medium. Most modern UIs seem to focus almost entirely on clean aesthetics, usually mindlessly drawing on conventions that serve limitations that exist in mobile, such as being really conservative about using screen space. I think desktop Firefox is an excellent example of this. A…

How many times do you really use that ≡ "burger" menu button of firefox in a day really? And after how many times do you end up having learned the keyboard shortcuts? There are only a handful of them that don't have a keyboard shortcut.

Is there a keyboard shortcut for the ≡ menu? How do I open the bookmarks bar?

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#105

Post by marginalia_nu »

projektfu wrote: post #100
marginalia_nu wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like around Windows 95 was the last time designers put a thought to designing for usability and around the actual constraints in the medium. Most modern UIs seem to focus almost entirely on clean aesthetics, usually mindlessly drawing on conventions that serve limitations that exist in mobile, such as being really conservative about using screen space. I think desktop Firefox is an excellent example of this. A…

Worth mentioning that you can turn the pull down menus back on in Firefox.

Right, but my point is this: What is the point in saving some sub 1% of screen space from a screen that is typically too big to even be fully utilized? Why are all the buttons tiny and hard to click, why do they have hieroglyphic symbols with no labels?

A button for opening an ad for a third party app (Pocket) is important enough to be immediately accessible. Why aren't my bookmarks deemed as important?

Makes a lot of sense on a mobile device where screen space is very limited. But on desktop?

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#106

Post by TonyTrapp »

prmoustache wrote: post #101
ChrisRR wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of scrollbars on desktop is a modern trend that annoys me Desktops aren't short of width, so why try and hide the scrollbars all the time, but programs seem happy to pack everything into navigation bars at the top where height is limited.

The functionnality of a scrollbar is provided by the touchpad, mouse with wheels , pageUp/Down and search tools so I have never missed it.

Your touchpad or mouse wheel doesn't tell you where you are in the document. Your touchpad or mouse wheel doesn't allow you to immediately, without any delay, go to the start or end of a document / list / etc., and Home/End keys are often not accepted by modern touch-oriented interfaces to allow for it. Neither your touchpad nor your mousewheel allow precise and quick navigation to a specific point in a long document. All of these missing features make me frequently feel lost in modern UIs.

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#107

Post by kaladin-jasnah »

KronisLV wrote: post #88
eikenberry wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully removable. I find window title bars to be a waste of space.

> I find window title bars to be a waste of space. Here's a possibly controversial take: why couldn't we do the opposite of mobile "notches" but for the elements of title bars that actually matter? So instead of having 20% of the window width be taken up by the title (which might as well act as a draggable window handle or allow opening window menu) and another 10% by the action buttons with 70% remaining empty, why…

Does BeOS/Haiku do something like this (screenshots at https://lowendmac.com/2001/user-interface-mac-vs-beos/)?

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#108

Post by prmoustache »

TonyTrapp wrote: post #106
prmoustache wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The functionnality of a scrollbar is provided by the touchpad, mouse with wheels , pageUp/Down and search tools so I have never missed it.

Your touchpad or mouse wheel doesn't tell you where you are in the document. Your touchpad or mouse wheel doesn't allow you to immediately, without any delay, go to the start or end of a document / list / etc., and Home/End keys are often not accepted by modern touch-oriented interfaces to allow for it. Neither your touchpad nor your mousewheel allow precise and quick navigation to a specific point in a long document…

I don't know a single UI accessible with a keyboard that do not accept Home/End.

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#109

Post by prmoustache »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #104
prmoustache wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many times do you really use that ≡ "burger" menu button of firefox in a day really? And after how many times do you end up having learned the keyboard shortcuts? There are only a handful of them that don't have a keyboard shortcut.

Is there a keyboard shortcut for the ≡ menu? How do I open the bookmarks bar?

afaik ctrl+shift+b show/hide you the bookmark toolbar.

I think there is none for the ≡ menu nor for settings* which is sad but most submenus are covered. I actually wish I could unmap or change the inspector menu shortcut (ctrl+shift+c) as I often use it by mistake if trying to copy/paste stuff from browser to my terminal.

* I actually do ctrl+t then type pref and find preferences in the history usually instead.

Re: Pangolin desktop environment for Fuchsia and Linux written in Flutter

#110

Post by tm-guimaraes »

prmoustache wrote: post #108
TonyTrapp wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your touchpad or mouse wheel doesn't tell you where you are in the document. Your touchpad or mouse wheel doesn't allow you to immediately, without any delay, go to the start or end of a document / list / etc., and Home/End keys are often not accepted by modern touch-oriented interfaces to allow for it. Neither your touchpad nor your mousewheel allow precise and quick navigation to a specific point in a long document…

I don't know a single UI accessible with a keyboard that do not accept Home/End.

What about “middle”? That’s the point of the bar, you can go to any place with a click. And you can see where you are.

PC monitors don’t lack width, these changes ate just blindly applying mobile trends to desktop while disregarding their differences.

Theres is much innovation to be done in desktop UI design, but blindly following mobile is not the way. Mobile screens are usually smaller and have the opposite high:width rate, and you use touch vs mouse+kb. Different design patterns should apply.

Removing scroll on mobile makes sense, few usage on a very limited width. On desktop width is a commodity that is mostly left unused.

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