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Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

artforum.com

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Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#101

Post by Cederfjard »

lelanthran wrote: post #47
krageon wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Framing everything as a reflection of short-term capitalistic gain is a travesty. Culture transcends your lifetime and probably the lifetime of the people that you are a part of. You ask what value there is in that, but I am curious what value your believe there could be in anything else without it.

My point was not that there is no value in it, my point was that there is already a considerable oversupply of it, so why buy more of it? Those people who have already managed to turn it into a fulltime job are more than sufficient to ensure that arts and culture exist. What exactly do you expect to see when more f/time practitioners are added to the existing mix?

Maybe an artist’s output might be tainted and diminished by having to worry about money, and someone in a secure financial situation may produce qualitatively different art? Pure speculation, obviously.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#102

Post by lmilcin »

> universal basic income for artists

How can something that only a single occupation receives, at random, be called "universal"? Do words even mean anything anymore?

We know what it means. Ireland will suddenly have a lot of "artists".

Also, who is going to decide what is and what is not art?

> selection will be randomized

Now I'm confused, do you mean artists should be counting on luck to be paid? Isn't that what they have already been doing?

How is something that depends on luck called basic?

Do words even mean anything anymore?

While you are at it, can you buy lotto tickets for the homeless? Because that will solve the problem.

Ireland, you are doing it wrong...

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#103

Post by onion2k »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #72
Ekaros wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If their skills aren't marketable in free market, why should other people subsidise them? I would much rather the money to be spend on something actually productive or physical. And not wasted entirely on art...

Why does the city/country not invest that money in affordable housing first? Handing out a few bucks to artists will not fix the main issues of why artists and all low wage workers can't survive anymore in today's cities, namely, unaffordable housing. Europe's biggest cultural centers (London, Paris, Amsterdam, etc.) have turned into the playground of foreign billionaires, real estate speculators and >six-figure inco…

Why does the city/country not invest that money in affordable housing first?

You're representing this as a dichotomy. It's not though. Governments have enough resources to do more than one thing at a time.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#104

Post by ramblerman »

As others have mentioned this is mostly marketing and not UBI for many reasons but one thing that irks me particularly with this initiative is selecting candidates based on occupation.

The *whole point* is to *not* select based on who is more or less deserving, that exists already and is called welfare.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#105

Post by guerrilla »

goblin89 wrote: post #91
pembrook wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds basically like a grant program, not UBI. However, slapping the phrase UBI on your program while it’s trendy is a genius way to “rebrand” something most governments already do. Politicians are the best marketers.

A few times in the past 3–5 years I came across Europeans who would travel and do stuff like photography or filmmaking while being compensated by the government. I was told that those are programs where basically all you need is to be an unemployed artist. (Some of those people would also do remote software consulting or such, although I think that was bending the rules slightly.) For a country that wants to start a…

> For a country that wants to start a similar program, mislabeling it (because of course it is not actually universal) as “UBI” could be strategic—make people comfortable with the term that could later be expanded to involve actual UBI with less controversy.

Or water it dowm so that people can't ask for actual UBI.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#106

Post by bncy »

onion2k wrote: post #30
bncy wrote: post #6

There was a debate regarding this topic just recently in Poland, where they wanted to introduce something of this kind. This is wrong in so many ways. It will encourage people to basically pretend they're doing some kind of art even if they're not. If someone is a real artist imo, they will manage. It will be part-time but eventually they will get better and can start making money out of it, and if not then well it c…

It will be part-time but eventually they will get better and can start making money out of it, and if not then well it can just be their hobby right? Except that's not what actually happens. People working a full time job (or more than one job) don't have the time or energy to also be a part-time artist until they make it. This is especially true for people who have other responsibilities like raising children or car…

I think you're missing the point here. It's great to have cultural heritage, but it's much better to get people out of poverty and hunger first, I think we should mainly focus on more important tasks at hand if we already have the resources to do that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an art enthusiast myself but I think that if someone is really passionate, they will go out and look for a sponsor themselves that's how it worked over the ages and our cultural heritage as a civilization is quite rich I'd say.

This is especially true for people who have other responsibilities like raising children or caring for elderly relatives.

But that's how every side hustle works, you have to get organized and manage your time well, having children is not an excuse.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#108

Post by neoromantique »

danivaz wrote: post #88
toyg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because not of bread alone you shalt live. You can't get to the moon without moonshots. There is a queue of people willing to fund for-profit moonshots, but when it comes to art and other non-monetizable human endeavours, in practice there is only the State.

art is monetizable

Hardly.

In its current form art market is looking more like tax break/deductibles market.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#110

Post by DaedPsyker »

Ekaros wrote: post #60
onion2k wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be part-time but eventually they will get better and can start making money out of it, and if not then well it can just be their hobby right? Except that's not what actually happens. People working a full time job (or more than one job) don't have the time or energy to also be a part-time artist until they make it. This is especially true for people who have other responsibilities like raising children or car…

If their skills aren't marketable in free market, why should other people subsidise them? I would much rather the money to be spend on something actually productive or physical. And not wasted entirely on art...

For small countries like Ireland, culture is a useful resource to promote abroad that generate interest and in turn other benefits to the island.
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