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Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

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31–40 of 235 posts

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#31
I think that's the way to go. I really enjoy art, especially music. There's a lot of money in the market, but most artists really struggle to make a living. The superstars get rich.

With a basic income for artists, everyone profits:

- Artists can be more creative and independent, because they don't need to monetize their work. - People can enjoy art regardless of their social status and the money in their pocket. - Society has a richer, more diverse and creative culture.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#32

Well that's not really universal by any metric (you have to be an artist, there can't be too many applicants or you'll get subjected to lottery) but I'm still enthusiastic. It's always nice seeing countries look to support their artists in building their cultural heritage. These feel more like government artist in residence grants.

> It's always nice seeing countries look to support their artists in building their cultural heritage. But, at the end of the day it's still worth close to nothing, right? I enjoy art and music as much as anyone else but the reason those professions are so poorly paid is because the supply outstrips the demand considerably[1]. What value is there in asking taxpayers to pay for an increase the supply when there's alre…

Not very many people believe that a market of individual capitalists responding to supply and demand creates the best outcomes. For example many people believe that state mandated healthcare creates better outcomes. For anyone willing to look beyond a simple model of supply and demand, a deep analysis of the effects is needed.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's always nice seeing countries look to support their artists in building their cultural heritage. But, at the end of the day it's still worth close to nothing, right? I enjoy art and music as much as anyone else but the reason those professions are so poorly paid is because the supply outstrips the demand considerably[1]. What value is there in asking taxpayers to pay for an increase the supply when there's alre…

Art and cultural heritage may have worth outside that represented by short-term supply and demand?

Indeed, which is why, in my opinion, it is a reasonable thing for the government to fund. The government funding things which are of value but would not make economic sense in a free market economy is a good use of resources.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#35
post #6

There was a debate regarding this topic just recently in Poland, where they wanted to introduce something of this kind. This is wrong in so many ways. It will encourage people to basically pretend they're doing some kind of art even if they're not. If someone is a real artist imo, they will manage. It will be part-time but eventually they will get better and can start making money out of it, and if not then well it c…

[deleted]

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#37

Well that's not really universal by any metric (you have to be an artist, there can't be too many applicants or you'll get subjected to lottery) but I'm still enthusiastic. It's always nice seeing countries look to support their artists in building their cultural heritage. These feel more like government artist in residence grants.

> It's always nice seeing countries look to support their artists in building their cultural heritage. But, at the end of the day it's still worth close to nothing, right? I enjoy art and music as much as anyone else but the reason those professions are so poorly paid is because the supply outstrips the demand considerably[1]. What value is there in asking taxpayers to pay for an increase the supply when there's alre…

Framing everything as a reflection of short-term capitalistic gain is a travesty. Culture transcends your lifetime and probably the lifetime of the people that you are a part of. You ask what value there is in that, but I am curious what value your believe there could be in anything else without it.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's always nice seeing countries look to support their artists in building their cultural heritage. But, at the end of the day it's still worth close to nothing, right? I enjoy art and music as much as anyone else but the reason those professions are so poorly paid is because the supply outstrips the demand considerably[1]. What value is there in asking taxpayers to pay for an increase the supply when there's alre…

Art and cultural heritage may have worth outside that represented by short-term supply and demand?

> Art and cultural heritage may have worth outside that represented by short-term supply and demand?

Or it may not. We can't tell objectively, because there is no metric to measure.

I suppose my point is, if you cannot tell that there is a benefit at all, why leap to the assumption that it's a large enough benefit to pay 25m euros for.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#39

Well that's not really universal by any metric (you have to be an artist, there can't be too many applicants or you'll get subjected to lottery) but I'm still enthusiastic. It's always nice seeing countries look to support their artists in building their cultural heritage. These feel more like government artist in residence grants.

> It's always nice seeing countries look to support their artists in building their cultural heritage. But, at the end of the day it's still worth close to nothing, right? I enjoy art and music as much as anyone else but the reason those professions are so poorly paid is because the supply outstrips the demand considerably[1]. What value is there in asking taxpayers to pay for an increase the supply when there's alre…

> paying people for doing what they love even when you are going to, in effect, throw away whatever they produce is madness.

No, it's hardcore keynesism. You're still sustaining demand in the market for all their necessities, from food and toilet paper to brushes and smart LEDs; and you are supporting the overall quality of life in the country, which passes also through people getting involved in art in various ways (as critics, consumers, etc). The fact that you may or may not get valuable output at the end is relatively irrelevant; in the end, a couple of resulting unicorns could probably repay the whole operation just by publicity and goodwill flowing to Ireland.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Art and cultural heritage may have worth outside that represented by short-term supply and demand?

> Art and cultural heritage may have worth outside that represented by short-term supply and demand? Or it may not. We can't tell objectively, because there is no metric to measure. I suppose my point is, if you cannot tell that there is a benefit at all , why leap to the assumption that it's a large enough benefit to pay 25m euros for.

Because not of bread alone you shalt live. You can't get to the moon without moonshots. There is a queue of people willing to fund for-profit moonshots, but when it comes to art and other non-monetizable human endeavours, in practice there is only the State.
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