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Job Applicant Resumes Are Effectively Impossible to De-Gender

unite.ai

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Re: Job Applicant Resumes Are Effectively Impossible to De-Gender

#101
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ha that's a hoot. What a horrible injustice for an HR team to try and bring some diversity to a company that mostly hired white males. If white males weren't so busy looking for drinking buddies under the guise of a "culture fit" for the last 2 decades this wouldn't be a thing. Diversity stats for our industry are a boondoggle, most of the diversity is concentrated in a few large companies, and it takes the bare mini…

> What a horrible injustice for an HR team to try and bring some diversity to a company that mostly hired white males. White people are under represented at tech companies in USA. Only Asians are over represented. The only reason to discriminate against white people there is that you hate white people. White people are less under represented than black people, true, but white people are still under represented.

You started with a lie, wonderful wonderful: https://www.eeoc.gov/special-report/diversity-high-tech

> Compared to overall private industry, the high tech sector employed a larger share of whites (63.5 percent to 68.5 percent), Asian Americans (5.8 percent to 14 percent) and men (52 percent to 64 percent), and a smaller share of African Americans (14.4 percent to 7.4 percent), Hispanics (13.9 percent to 8 percent), and women (48 percent to 36 percent).

But I'll play ball, I'm sure you can show me a stat that says white people are underrepresented by a tiny amount by changing the scope, maybe by considering worse paying jobs where white people are definitely underrepresented!

That will totally make your point... right? White people are not getting enough of the worst jobs, only the best ones! Kind of why I said industry wide stats are useless though.

Of course, also link it so I can show how that same source probably shows blacks and hispanics as being even more underrepresented than mine and I can laugh in your face for acting like white people are "underrepresented" in tech because there's like a 90% correlation to population size instead of 100%.

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But actually I mean let's roll with your lie for a second!

Do you think, just maybe, white people are less likely to be under represented at the companies that are working hardest to hire non-white-males?

Like a company is all-hands-on-deck trying to get some marginalized people working there, that's because...??? Like who... who do you think is currently making up most of the org?

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Again... broad industry stats about diversity are utter bullshit.

Don't take my word for it, apply some critical thinking.

Do you think white males are underrepresented more or less as you climb the ladder?

https://www.thisdot.co/blog/diversity-statistics-in-tech-a-d...

You can look at that first diagram and you tell me that white males are being discriminated against?

Like, how out if touch with reality are you?

We're in an industry where the only reason there's any underrepresentation of whites is because companies were stuffing minorities into the worst paying roles and bringing over H1B1s to underpay them whenever they can.

The moment HR tries to change the status quo the white males start crying racism. Cry on brother.

Re: Job Applicant Resumes Are Effectively Impossible to De-Gender

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or are you just insecure about your own biases. --- > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3…

This would be a great copy pasta if you didn't have to purposely ignore the entire rest if the comment to make it work. And it's not an insult, people are clearly insecure about their biases, even you for being unable to address a very clear point and immediately taking solace in playing a wannabe mod to somehow invalidate the actual point. You have biases, I have biases. We all have biases. Some people hear one guy…

No, it works fine regardless of context. You can't make an argument and then tack on "and if you disagree it's because you're insecure"; your comment would be more compelling if you didn't resort to ad hominem.

Re: Job Applicant Resumes Are Effectively Impossible to De-Gender

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of, but we have to be careful not the wash the hands of people all too willing to discard responsibility. It's correct to say "it's just statistics on data" but it also provides cover to the processes that use it. "How can you be against hiring the best person for the job" the argument goes, completely ignoring that the "best" isn't scientifically defined, and includes the same sexist biases we were trying to ge…

I read that as specifically saying that the ethical and legal responsibility is entirely on the people. (i.e. I think you're agreeing with the comment you're replying to)

Yes, sorry for the lack of clarity. Users shouldn't blame the machine when they control every aspect of it and how it's used. It's on you as a user to understand your tools and data.

Re: Job Applicant Resumes Are Effectively Impossible to De-Gender

#104
My boss recently transfered to my team a lady that was lacking very basic skills. I was, and still am happy to mentor her, and have her in our team, like everyone else who joins us. But I suspect that the only reason we keep her is my manager's KPI that is driven by the (well known) views of higher managent in our company. This makes me feel very bad towards all those candidates I rejected that had much more experience than her, but still not enough for the roles we are recruiting for (we set the bar pretty high). This favoritism is implicitly discrimination against these candidates. But you don't fix discrimination with more discrimination. Instead of moving forward, we repeat the same mistakes with different decoration. I want to move somewhere far away :(

Re: Job Applicant Resumes Are Effectively Impossible to De-Gender

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be a great copy pasta if you didn't have to purposely ignore the entire rest if the comment to make it work. And it's not an insult, people are clearly insecure about their biases, even you for being unable to address a very clear point and immediately taking solace in playing a wannabe mod to somehow invalidate the actual point. You have biases, I have biases. We all have biases. Some people hear one guy…

No, it works fine regardless of context. You can't make an argument and then tack on "and if you disagree it's because you're insecure"; your comment would be more compelling if you didn't resort to ad hominem.

Your comment would be more compelling if you had something of substance to say instead of taking a cop out and whining someone the black guy is too mad about racism in the industry for your liking, not just once but twice now...

You're acting like I wrote some expletive filled rant, it's 99% content and an unbiased, honest question to the reader: are you insecure about the biases we all have?

If even being asked that bothers you so much maybe that's also something to think about.

Re: Job Applicant Resumes Are Effectively Impossible to De-Gender

#106

FWIW at least at the company I work this gives women an advantage. I get a nice bonus for anyone I recruit but recruiting a woman also increases my managers KPI.

We have quotas we need to fill. Hiring a white male is basically a nonstarter without prostrating yourself before HR

I have a white male friend who works in academia in NYC. They had a staff meeting at the college about hiring for open positions in several departments and were explicitly told that they were looking only for "diverse" candidates and that white men would not be considered.

Re: Job Applicant Resumes Are Effectively Impossible to De-Gender

#107
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't something to claim without elaborating. You're saying your company won't hire white males without extenuating circumstances? I'd love to see the incredibly diverse teams there then... or is this a case of your company used to not hire non-whites and now they're trying to play catch up so they can beat a drum about DNI, meanwhile the culture that lead to a lack of diversity marches on internally?

> I’d love to see the incredibly diverse teams there then… This is exactly the line of thinking that causes the aforementioned reluctance to hire yet another white male.

What on earth are you talking about?

You think the reason they're so desperate they're willing to gaslight minorities over their abilities (according to this anonymous unelaborated source) is because they have diverse teams?

Did you just stop reading after the ellipses or what?

Re: Job Applicant Resumes Are Effectively Impossible to De-Gender

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My properties ensure that I won't face quotas that would be a barrier for emplyoment (well maybe my gender, I'm male), so, I'm just curious, so what if there's one position to fill, the male candidate scores 60%, and the female one scores 58% (using my hypothetical ranking system which actually works and is fair, etc, etc), so just slightly lower. Would your company pick the female candidate in this case? I guess ans…

People need to realize is actual support for diversity means internalizing there is a benefit. So if you actually believe there is a benefit to having a team of men and women (I do), then it's not "wrong" to let that guide you to the woman when any score above a 50% indicates someone who will be able to actually do the work.

You're pushing shit uphill with that argument on HN. A lot of these guys have never worked on a team with anything resembling gender balance, and they have an irrational fear of women.
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