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Defund the Police meets the crime wave

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Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#101

Post by ryguytilidie »

mostertoaster wrote: post #74
scrollbar wrote: post #18

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

I think it is that the movement itself has caused crime to increase. My friend is a police officer and is moving out of my progressive state to a more conservative one. He told me this is happening in nearly every department. His reasoning was that they use to feel like they were on the side of the community, but in many places it is now the community is opposed to the police. Also they don’t risk certain things beca…

>His reasoning was that they use to feel like they were on the side of the community, but in many places it is now the community is opposed to the police.

This is like your grandpa telling you kids have no respect nowadays when all he does is scream at any kid he sees and then demands respect. It works both ways. Police used to be part of the community. Then they put themselves in tanks and body armor and come into every situation guns blazing and scared of everyone in the community.

How is the community supposed to react...?

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#102

Post by livinginfear »

reanimus wrote: post #42
fatcat500 wrote: post #33

The people who support defunding the police have never felt genuine fear from being victimized by crime. It's only after the crime, when you're thinking about how someone else had the hubris to threaten your life, thinking about how you could have died, or worse, if your loved ones had been with you, that they could have died, that you begin to wade yourself into a deep and abiding anger. I used to feel sympathy for…

I dunno man, both me and my mom have been mugged before and the police didn't help. Same with when my car was broken into and someone tried to break my front door lock. People make this argument all the time but I fail to see how the police have helped any time I've experienced any actual crime, not to mention so many others. That's not even getting into the politics of who can call the police and how the police reac…

I don't see how defunding the police provides any kind of solution to the problems you mention. I know there's a strawman argument here, do you think that you'll get better treatment from local gangs/militias/warlords, in a society without police?

'Police Abolitionism' can't be taken seriously as an ideology. I'm not white, and I've been the victim of crime multiple times, unfortunately. I don't think the police are perfect, or a perfect institution. They did their job, and helped me in these cases. Whenever I hear people talk about being afraid to call the police I switch off immediately. Total bunk.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#103

Post by vb6sp6 »

treeman79 wrote: post #66
deeg wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime is going up in cities all over the country, including those in red states that never had a sniff of "Defund the Police". I'm unconvinced that it's a direct contributor.

Going after a bad guy is now very risky. If someone puts a gun to your head and says they will kill you and you protect yourself. Well you will be made an example.

No it isn't.

Mistaking a taser for a gun and killing someone is very risky.

Kneeling on someone's neck while they are handcuffed is risky.

Normal policing is not.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#104

Post by rafale »

All of this debate is based on the bs idea that poverty breeds crime. When in fact it's a bad culture that does. I have seen places in 3rd world countries much poorer than most poor minorities in the US , and they just lived, helping each other out the best they can.

But when the culture praises gangsters, being a "bad bitch" or whatever cancerous crap they brag about these days, then you get the issue of crime.

Unpopular opinion, but culture is a bigger factor than most people recognize.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#105

Post by eigenrick »

le_epic_throw wrote: post #47

Sorry, but I haven't seen any evidence for a "crime wave" in 2020-2021. FBI stats show a slight uptick in violent crimes. These rates haven't been seen since... gasp ... 2017. If police-civilian interactions really decreased 80% (as quoted in the article), and in exchange violent crime only raised 5.6% [0], personally that shows even dramatic reductions in police presence don't lead to complete "anarchy". I fear, giv…

That data doesn't show 2021. It only goes up to 2020.

You don't have to try very hard to find data that supports a massive uptick in violent crime in 2021. Dozens of cities have reported all-time-high murder rates. Even cities like Philedelphia, which was already pretty high to begin with.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/27/us-murder-ra...

I don't think it is due to defunding the police, however. As has been pointed out, murder rates are up in large cities, and small towns, both Red and Blue.

There is a simple explanation: Nobody is getting incarcerated, because of COVID requirements in jails.

In my hometown, which is not a major metro area, a friend of mine (who lives inside city limits) even had a cow stolen. When discussing this with the police officer, the officer's remark was "crime is up over a thousand percent" because "they can't incarcerate anyone" because of covid. They would book people, but the jails are at max capacity, so they don't even do time. They get "booked and released".

https://www.opb.org/news/article/npr-the-covid-19-crisis-str...

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#106

Post by throwawaygh »

vondur wrote: post #83
scrollbar wrote: post #18

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

The main item in certain states is not prosecuting crime. We recently had a smash and grab robbery that made news here in SoCal. The suspects were quickly apprehended, but it turns out they were released on bail almost immediately afterwards. Due to the non-prosecution of criminal acts, these people will probably never do any jail time. People are definitely cognizant of this at this point, and it's eroding peoples t…

Releasing on bail isn't the same as non-prosecution. Tons of people who are released on bail are later convicted and sentenced to lengthy prison terms.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#107

Post by uoaei »

mostertoaster wrote: post #74
scrollbar wrote: post #18

I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime. Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests. A quick search seems to confirm this: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t... >Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Coun…

I think it is that the movement itself has caused crime to increase. My friend is a police officer and is moving out of my progressive state to a more conservative one. He told me this is happening in nearly every department. His reasoning was that they use to feel like they were on the side of the community, but in many places it is now the community is opposed to the police. Also they don’t risk certain things beca…

If cops aren't willing to do their jobs, and instead let their feelings get in the way, they are negligent in their service and incompetent... to say the least.

It is not the jobs of people being policed to watch their own tone so they avoid offending cops. It is the job of cops to serve and protect, full stop.

It is well-known that police departments align closely with the cultural segments that (among other things) critique alleged "snowflakes". If what you say is true then there is ironically a glut of snowflakes at our local precincts and they cannot be trusted to handle weapons in public spaces.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#108

Post by asdff »

r00fus wrote: post #71
asdff wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oftentimes they are given this military gear for pretty much free. When is the last time you've even seen SWAT deployed that made you think "I wish they didn't deploy SWAT?"

TANSTAAFL - who's paying for that gear? How'd it get in the police department's hands "for free"? I don't want to be SWATTED (for script kiddie's Lulz) just because the police have the equipment and need to justify usage of it.

Federal programs transfer this equipment to police force for free other than like shipping and ongoing maintenance(1). Easy for ARs since they already have the gun lube. Harder for the Armored Personel Carrier so that is usually found parked in front of HQ just for show like an old WWII tank. SWATTING is extremely rare and unlikely to ever happen to you or anyone you personally know. Meanwhile there's been plenty of cases that have demonstrated the need for police to have access to weaponry, like the north hollywood shootout(2).

1. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/09/why-police-pay-nothing-for-m... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#110

Post by leesalminen »

le_epic_throw wrote: post #53
Trias11 wrote: post #43

To solve violent crime we just need to give citizens ability to protect themselves. Try to rob me or hurt my family - be carried away in a body bag. Yet that goes against some politicians narrative.

How many lives is your flatscreen worth?

How do you know the criminal who just entered your house uninvited is only there to take your flatscreen?

Think quickly, your and your family’s life depends on your decision.

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