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Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

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Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#101

Post by malermeister »

sgregnt wrote: post #95
malermeister wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because government power is not the only power capable of suppressing individual freedoms. Corporate power is too and we need the government to keep it in check. Case in point, Facebook trying to restrict how you use hardware you own.

The example with facebook is quite different from Gov. Your interaction with facebook is 100% voluntarily, you don't like facebook then you can say bye! With the government you have no room for flexibility.

> Your interaction with facebook is 100% voluntarily

It is not. They used their money and power to hire some of the brightest minds in VR to design hardware and to create exclusivity deals with some of the best developers. I either take facebook's offering or I don't have access to those things at all.

> With the government you have no room for flexibility.

You do. You can "say bye!" as you phrased it and move to another place with a another government. I've done it several times now.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#103

Post by ipaddr »

sgregnt wrote: post #95
malermeister wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because government power is not the only power capable of suppressing individual freedoms. Corporate power is too and we need the government to keep it in check. Case in point, Facebook trying to restrict how you use hardware you own.

The example with facebook is quite different from Gov. Your interaction with facebook is 100% voluntarily, you don't like facebook then you can say bye! With the government you have no room for flexibility.

You have this backwards. Facebook wants to sell in the US market. There are rules to follow if facebook doesn't want to join this market they are free to choose not to.

Same as you are not forced to use facebook.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#104

Post by akerl_ »

ipaddr wrote: post #103
sgregnt wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The example with facebook is quite different from Gov. Your interaction with facebook is 100% voluntarily, you don't like facebook then you can say bye! With the government you have no room for flexibility.

You have this backwards. Facebook wants to sell in the US market. There are rules to follow if facebook doesn't want to join this market they are free to choose not to. Same as you are not forced to use facebook.

Facebook is following the rules that exist. The discussion in this thread is whether or not it’s a good idea to add a rule that says whether a keyboard can require a cloud service. Now I think that keyboards that require cloud service are a stupid product, but if somebody wants to make one, I don’t think it’s the government’s job to ban them from making the attempt.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#105

Post by malermeister »

akerl_ wrote: post #79
malermeister wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because they aren't secretive about it doesn't mean it's an okay thing to do. Doing a bad thing out in the open might make it shameless, but it doesn't make it acceptable.

I’m saying it’s not clear to me why it’s a bad thing. It’s clear that you want them to design a different VR headset, but I wish IKEA made a different depth Kallax shelf and yet I’m not looking to make it a legal requirement.

The law says IKEA has to use certain non-flammable materials on mattresses etc to protect the individual.

Along the same lines, the law should say Facebook can't sell hardware that forces you to give up all your privacy to protect the individual.

This is not "I want Facebook to design a headset with blue stripes", this is "I don't want to be forced to give up my private data to use a product that would work just fine without".

I think the difference between the two should be obvious.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#106

Post by cortesoft »

LegitShady wrote: post #69
okwubodu wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Quest is standalone giving it the lowest barrier to entry even without the current PC market being terrible.

standalone VR is pretty garbage running off a phone graphics card. The quest is only interesting where you connect to PCVR, and then its not standalone.

Have you used the Quest 2? I've owned the original rift dev kit, a vive, a vive pro, and a quest 2.... the stand alone quest 2 experience is actually pretty amazing. I was skeptical, too, but it is quite impressive.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#107

Post by akerl_ »

malermeister wrote: post #101
sgregnt wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The example with facebook is quite different from Gov. Your interaction with facebook is 100% voluntarily, you don't like facebook then you can say bye! With the government you have no room for flexibility.

> Your interaction with facebook is 100% voluntarily It is not. They used their money and power to hire some of the brightest minds in VR to design hardware and to create exclusivity deals with some of the best developers. I either take facebook's offering or I don't have access to those things at all. > With the government you have no room for flexibility. You do. You can "say bye!" as you phrased it and move to ano…

Yes. If you choose not to take Facebook’s offering, you don’t get access to the things they and others build for their product. Do we want to make exclusivity deals between businesses illegal?

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#108

Post by rhacker »

akerl_ wrote: post #58
rhacker wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is it desirable for Congress Humans are dumb and they buy it, and it sets the precedent. We have to make laws sometimes. You can barely even buy a TV without smart features now and yet everyone that knows about such features that don't want them still HAVE to buy them if they want a gd tv. Should we just make it legal for oil companies to have no consequences for oil spills because it doesn't really affect much…

Maybe they’re not dumb and they’re making their own choices differently than you make yours. Oil spills harm the environment. We regulate them because the ocean can’t just choose to not receive the oil, not out of a desire to make sure we can keep eating fish. EDIT: To say the thing out loud: I buy smart TVs on purpose, and I’d like to think I’m a smart person who understands the technology involved. Is the case you’…

Well, I think all of them are dumb, including me. I'm not going to finger point at you specifically and call you dumb because that is rude (unfortunately yes, my subtext is). I'd say half of my choices are dumb, and yes when we find that most of the time people are making dumb choices that put humanity in a worse and worse situation, maybe it's time to drop in some laws to slow that down.

I mean go and look at the other HN thread on 100K US deaths per year on plastic. I mean I bought plastic today and highly likely will do so again tomorrow.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#109

Post by akerl_ »

Apocryphon wrote: post #97
akerl_ wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was being flippant in my comment above, but just to be clear: I think regulating business models for cell phones is just as bad an idea. Electrical service has limitations around things like termination of service / fair pricing / safety, but we don’t mandate how they design their software and servers.

What about their comment on the lack of non-smart TVs?

There are plenty of non-smart TVs. They just cost more than smart TVs. You can find them at any number of suppliers, and they’re still bought in large numbers by businesses.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#110

Post by 3np »

sgregnt wrote: post #90
rhacker wrote: post #15

Facebook keeps asking Congress to make laws. How about this one: Peripherals, including mice, monitors, keyboards, VR headsets or any other device used to process input or output from a computer, may NOT be connected to any cloud service with an account. Any such cloud connections MUST be for software updates only and software updates MUST be capable of permanent opt-out without any loss of usage. I mean I grew up wi…

If for some reason,now or in the future, I prefer my peripherals to be connected to cloud. Your law deprives me of this freedom. Just a thought.

No, it does not. It requires that they should be usable without. Why is that unreasonable?
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