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Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

baneproctoring.com

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Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#101

Post by bitL »

op00to wrote: post #97
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i.e. 360 degree room scanning Tape a smartphone to the laptop screen. Out of view of the webcam at all times. (This isn't hard.) Such room scanning is harmful, and doesn't prevent cheating.

The tests I’ve taken (amateur radio, tech certs) require a second device to show the rest of the first device.

Some tests I've taken required a 360-degree scan first including under-the-desk walk (to show no cheat sheets were glued anywhere) and then required a second device with a side-view of the desk I was sitting at. When I was taking an ETS test for a Stanford admission, they just required 360 room scan and the test itself only with a laptop camera.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#102

Post by Etheryte »

miki123211 wrote: post #98
erhk wrote: post #91

Amazon requires you show ID and have a camera on for their online peogramming screening. I chose to not enable my laptop webcam and to instead apply elsewhere, mostly from self respect. In paying an institute for education i doubt students have a similar luxury. I hope that the EU might enforce privacy similar to the move against cookies. Likewise i would love to see restrictions that prohibit facial recognition in p…

This seems not to be a thing in the EU at all. At least in Poland where I live, it's pretty much unheard of. Sure, cameras are required once in a while, sometimes you need to show your student ID, but the scary e-proctoring software doesn't exist at all.

Anecdotal evidence, but I heard TU Delft (in the Netherlands) used e-proctoring software like this in some high level exams. So it might not be that black and white. If anything, I'd wager you mostly just don't hear about it because most students have nearly no leverage in situations like this.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#103

Post by basisword »

gambiting wrote: post #80
jordanpg wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real story here is that cheating is rampant, everyone knows it, and that the universities (as opposed to individual professors) are not prepared to do what is necessary to stop it. I'm speaking, of course, of measures like expulsion. Too much of a hit to the bottom line, too much messy litigation, and too much bad PR. All of this is another way of making your point, which is that the core mission of universities…

Again, I think the problem is elsewhere. Where I'm from(Poland) cheating is rampant and universities have absolutely no trouble kicking people out over it. Got caught cheating? Good bye, apply again next year. It doesn't lead to litigation or messy PR. Maybe it's because all universities are free to attend so no one can argue that they paid for something they aren't getting - all they are losing is their own time.

I went to university a bit later in life. When I was in high school smartphones weren’t a thing yet and cheating in exams was difficult and not common. At university cheating seemed rampant and easy. It was easy to spot the potential cheaters but not easy to prove they were cheating so they got away with it. You just go to the bathroom (in a long exam they can’t exactly stop you from this) and you have all your notes on your phone. There were people I’m surprised got into the university in the first place getting really good grades because of this. It was frustrating but I’m not sure what universities can do in this case. It seems to me that the “exam” process needs rethought entirely. I’m not sure how it could be changed but it is far too easy to cheat now. Like a lot of things in life too, the dishonest people tend to get away with it and manage to succeed while some portion of the honest people work very hard and struggle.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#104

Post by MereInterest »

mvanaltvorst wrote: post #52

Me and my roommate are first year undergraduate students. We do different bachelors; I have taken all my tests this year with online proctoring, my roommate has had all his tests without online proctoring. The proctoring process is actually pretty simple: I have a Google Chrome extension installed that I enable when I have to take an exam. It takes 5 extra minutes before the exam: I have to show my identification, th…

> Similarly with my room, you can hide everything that would breach your privacy before the exam starts.

The need to hide things is itself an effect of privacy having been breached. Privacy isn't just to keep information secret, but also to provide a space in which you can be comfortable because it is your own space. Needing to hide things away is a reaction to privacy being breached, not a way to preserve privacy.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#105

Post by mkl »

dspillett wrote: post #39
ShroudedNight wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I did not take the exam. I assume at significant cost? I feel similarly strongly about my dominion over my own computing devices and the boundaries placed on their intrusion into my environment. I wonder, at what point should this reasonably be considered equivalent to a religious belief and provided the same sort of protection.

> I feel similarly strongly about my dominion over my own computing devices Same here. If I ever need to take remote exams like described I'll get a cheap laptop, or something like a Pi attached to a TV/monitor, and take the exam on that. They can have me install anything they like, it will be on a guest wireless network that can't cross to the rest of the local network, will be freshly installed with an account that…

An old laptop is the way to go, as long as its networking is good. A Raspberry Pi is unlikely to be supported; these programs usually only support Windows and macOS (and possibly ipadOS or Android). A virtual machine is not an option either, as it will be detected and the program will refuse to run.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#106

Post by alanfranz »

reayn wrote: post #81
alanfranz wrote: post #56

Recent gatech OMSCS graduate here. I fail to recognize any real issue with proctoring. I have used proctortrack and honorlock. * proctoring software can be installed before an exam and uninstalled afterwards. It doesn’t need to stay on your pc/browser, and its activation is very obvious. I have no info about permanent security issues caused by such software. * what proctoring does is mostly recording video and audio…

1. The software should’ve never existed, it’s a testimony to the failure of our education system. 2. You are far luckier than most when it comes to your circumstances, i have seen myself people failing exams for similar mishaps to yours.

1. Explain why.

2. Shitty instructors are not the software’s fault.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#107

Post by onorton »

noodlesUK wrote: post #76
dspillett wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume the target audience would all know the term, and others could work it with a little deduction or Googling. Though it is a bit US centric I think. Here in the UK what I think is referred to as a proctor would instead be called an invigilator. Though again, unless the target audience is international, that probably does not matter.

I would add as an aside that the invigilated exam halls you likely remember from your British education don’t really exist in most US universities. Final exams are generally administered by the lecturers themselves rather than independent invigilators, and there’s (generally) less emphasis on having a standardised process from one course to another.

Funny, at my UK university for Computer Science we did not have independently invigilated exams. I would assume other courses were similar. We did have them for secondary education though.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#108

Post by nicbou »

captainmuon wrote: post #68
maweki wrote: post #2

We employed the method of mixing the order of questions, not giving question titles, and having a pool of subtly different questions (a negation or a different constant slipped in) in order to vastly increase the amount of necessary communication to collaborate. We had the students turn on their webcams just to discourage them sitting in the same room, which basically would negate our former efforts. Neither did we f…

Especially at universities I don't see the reason for invasive e-proctoring. When I was studying (physics, early 2000s in Germany), we didn't even have a honor system, we had the assumption that everybody is there to learn something. If you cheat, you harm yourself. Progress was assessed by weekly excercise sheets where you were encouraged to work together with others, and to learn how to use the library to find solu…

I agree with you, but at the same time, it diminishes the value of a degree, because it no longer certifies that meet certain requirements.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#109

Post by mkl »

accurrent wrote: post #87

When I was TAing last year we had to proctor the students via zoom (trust me its not fun for anyone). Quite frankly I found different professors approached things in different ways. All the exams were made open book, because its impossible to figure out if people are looking at their notes. One of the profs decided to make it impossible to cheat by basically making the exam so hard that even the A+ students would hav…

I think making the exam really hard is more likely to backfire and push people to cheat. One of the main drivers of cheating is the perception of unfairness. The time limitation is not really an obstacle if you're organised, just divide and conquer doing a subset of the questions each.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#110

Post by Bayart »

jordanpg wrote: post #74
captainmuon wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially at universities I don't see the reason for invasive e-proctoring. When I was studying (physics, early 2000s in Germany), we didn't even have a honor system, we had the assumption that everybody is there to learn something. If you cheat, you harm yourself. Progress was assessed by weekly excercise sheets where you were encouraged to work together with others, and to learn how to use the library to find solu…

The real story here is that cheating is rampant, everyone knows it, and that the universities (as opposed to individual professors) are not prepared to do what is necessary to stop it. I'm speaking, of course, of measures like expulsion. Too much of a hit to the bottom line, too much messy litigation, and too much bad PR. All of this is another way of making your point, which is that the core mission of universities…

>Too much of a hit to the bottom line, too much messy litigation, and too much bad PR.

Well, that wouldn't be a problem to the person you're answering to, considering German universities aren't businesses who take people in for capital (both financial and social).

In France it's certainly very easy to get yourself thrown out for cheating or not showing up.

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