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Goodbye Freenode

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Re: Goodbye Freenode

#101

Post by manabi »

neilv wrote: post #48
progval wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is some speculation about the motivations here: https://ariadne.space/2021/05/20/the-whole-freenode-kerfluff...

I don't know these particular people, but, absolutely, many people grew up with IRC and similar earlier online social forums as a refuge from trauma, or to find community or acceptance. (That started in the age of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_... , before more conventional social dynamics took over the 'Net.) If that theory is correct, I'd guess there's a good path to something that eve…

I doubt any nonprofit credible enough is going to risk damaging their reputation by taking on Freenode after what Lee's done with it. Nearly everyone's already moved to Libera & OFTC, people aren't going to want to move back after all that work, and well, frankly, Freenode's very name is toxic now.

Also, I doubt Lee would ever give up control, because it's clear controlling the network is what he wanted all along.

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#102

Post by manabi »

neilv wrote: post #23

Many IRC networks have had drama. But does anyone know the motivation for recent actions by Freenode? I'm discounting conspiracy theories (e.g., flipping, sabotage) because I think anyone acting strategically wrt IRC knows that forking an IRC network has been part of the standard toolkit for responding to "damage", since almost the start. I'm starting to lean towards a theory of there being no longer being a business…

I believe everything we're seeing Lee do is because he's a narcissist[1] and is simply incapable of accepting failure. I read an article[2] recently on how a narcissist handles failure and it fits this situation perfectly. Just some of the steps (it's a long article):

▣ Insist everything is fine, claim any evidence otherwise is false. ▣ Attack not only the evidence, but anyone presenting it. ▣ Find someone to blame for their troubles (in this case Libera). ▣ Never take responsibility, EVER, it's always someone's else fault. ▣ Lies increase and are repeatedly exponentially. ▣ If it appears the narcissist is going to be brought down, they will start lashing out to make others suffer. They will NOT go down alone. ▣ As the end nears, the suffering of others becomes paramount.

IRC was important to Lee growing up as jeltz noted. So he obtained control over Freenode because it was the largest IRC network in the world, and owning it made him feel good. But eventually, because he's a narcissist, he wasn't satisfied merely owning it, he wanted to run it. He probably felt only he knew best how to do so, because he's a narcissist. That started the failure and it's all been downhill ever since, because he can't accept that failure.

If I'm correct, it's going to get much worse, and much uglier, in the weeks and months to come. Lee's going to start attacking his current toadies and enablers as well, and doing more and more things to cause suffering to anyone he feels is remotely connected to the "appearance" of him failing. (Because remember, he's incapable of admitting he failed.)

[1] In particular Malignant Narcissist Personality Disorder, an actual mental health disorder, not just someone who likes themselves a bit too much.

[2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/spycatcher/202007/wh...

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#103

Post by manabi »

deckard1 wrote: post #69

This drama all reminds me of what happened at DALnet in the early 2000s. A few overzealous IRCops started a purge of all the warez/mp3 scene channels. Everyone suspected RIAA put the pressure on them. I was a channel op with a handful of friends at the time of a popular channel (100-200 members on average). One day I logged on and the channel was invite only. They took the channel via their ChanServ service. Everyone…

That's not quite how it happened, DALnet suffered prolonged DDoS assaults that took the network offline for several weeks. (I remember it being a couple of months.) Once they got past the DDoS was when they banned all file trading. It wasn't just warez and mp3 channels, it also targeted manga scanlation and anime fansub groups.

The reasoning I heard was that the DDoS was triggered by someone getting upset about something that happened in a file-trading channel, and decided to DDoS the entire network as a result. After being offline for so long from the attack, DALnet admins wanted nothing to do with that kind of bullshit again and just purged it all. I really can't say that I blame them.

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#104

Post by squarefoot »

teakettle42 wrote: post #53
raphlinus wrote: post #8

It is ironic, but not at all surprising to me, that "free speech" in the context of current Freenode means being not enforcing codes of conduct (so being transphobia-friendly among other things), but an iron moderation grip on any criticism of the network itself.

You’re correct; if they actually supported free speech values, criticism of the network should clearly have been allowed, too.

They're banning people just for naming other networks, even without open criticism. I would expect that behavior from unexperienced children who didn't have time to develop social values, not from grown ups.

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#105

Post by yongjik »

geofft wrote: post #77
neilv wrote: post #23

Many IRC networks have had drama. But does anyone know the motivation for recent actions by Freenode? I'm discounting conspiracy theories (e.g., flipping, sabotage) because I think anyone acting strategically wrt IRC knows that forking an IRC network has been part of the standard toolkit for responding to "damage", since almost the start. I'm starting to lean towards a theory of there being no longer being a business…

Andrew Lee also claims to be the Crown Prince of Korea - because he claims to be distantly related to a very old king, contacted one of the aging claimants to the throne who has no male children, and organized a "ceremony" with him in a Vietnamese restaurant in Beverly Hills. I think if you want to form a theory of mind re his Freenode actions, you'd be well informed by forming a theory of mind re his Korea actions.…

So, I got curious and looked it up: Andrew Lee "inherited" his claim from Prince(?) Yi Seok, who is the tenth son of Yi Kang (King Uichin), who was the fifth son of Emperor Gojong. ("Yi" and "Lee" are just two different ways to Latinize the same family name.)

It already casts doubt on what legitimate claim Yi Seok could have on the Imperial Throne - the matter was not resolved only because monarchy is dead in Korea and nobody gives a damn any more, and people kinda feel sad that these imperial descendants went through so much tragedy and struggles in the last century, so we just politely nod, in the same way we would talk to our grandma suffering from dementia.

But some guy who grew up in America crashing a family reunion and claiming he's the inheritor of the family house because he met grandma once and got her to sign some document? Lol, nice try.

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#106

Post by duskwuff »

phoe-krk wrote: post #97
xena wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

14:59 IRCCloud was not klined by mistake. 14:59 We don't allow IRCCloud on freenode. 14:59 We offer our own free BNC, if you'd like to use that instead.

Oh, perfect. So it's anticompetitive behavior at its finest.

It's even stupider than that. IRCCloud is a web client which happens to provide some bouncer functionality. Freenode's bouncer is only available over IRC; it requires users to connect with their own IRC client.

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#107

Post by IntelMiner »

SaberUK wrote: post #92
mst wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently rasengan likes it too inpspiricd is a good project but we'll make it way better sadie is pretty good for a noob but obviously its time to take things serious

Yeah I heard that. It's GPLv2 licensed so he's free to use it (if he can even migrate his services database without corrupting it) but his lackies have been informed that they will be banned on sight if they try to ask for support.

But how else will that troglodyte and his minions call you a "noob"

Seriously it's 2021 who unironically still uses that term?

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#108

Post by IntelMiner »

hluska wrote: post #39
marcan_42 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not just transphobia-friendly; one of their new ops got opped right after uttering a transphobic slur in a very transphobic sentence. Their own staff are openly transphobes.

If any trans people read this, I’m sorry some people are like that but I love the hell out of you.

Trans rights are human rights. Always will be

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#109

Post by perigrin »

duskwuff wrote: post #106
phoe-krk wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, perfect. So it's anticompetitive behavior at its finest.

It's even stupider than that. IRCCloud is a web client which happens to provide some bouncer functionality. Freenode's bouncer is only available over IRC; it requires users to connect with their own IRC client.

Wonder if you can connect with IRCCloud?
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