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Goodbye Freenode

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Re: Goodbye Freenode

#81

Post by SaberUK »

dijit wrote: post #73
SaberUK wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the maintainer of one of the more popular IRC server implementations I know a giant chunk of the Libera Chat (formerly freenode) staff pretty well and whilst we may disagree frequently on technical choices they're decent people who were appointed based on technical merit. They pretty much didn't have any say in rasengan seizing control of freenode as Christel sold out the project and lied to the other staff about…

Hey Saber, Thanks for everything you do on inspircd and IRCv3, I've been using the former for my network for nearly 15 years now.

I'm glad you find my work useful. :)

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#82

Post by kemayo »

mst wrote: post #59
phoe-krk wrote: post #4

The current Libera Chat[0] is everything that Freenode was before rasengan entered the game: a stable IRC network that goes out of its way to be transparent to the communities and projects that use it and to provide them with stability and network operator support, period. The current Fleenode is nothing that Freenode was before rasengan entered the game: it destroyed the stability of all the projects that previously…

According to rasengan, in his current incarnation as root, the irccloud thing wasn't accidental: what accidental irccloud blanket ban? I keep hearing about this? I think all of irccloud got k-lined briefly - shit happens It's intentional for sure. I think someone accidentally removed it. is there a public statement about that anywhere? (and then nobody ever responded as to why, so I'm afraid that's all I know wrt tha…

The IRCCloud thing is my own breaking point for staying connected to Freenode for some channels that hadn't moved yet. I'm not going to switch my entire IRC client setup around because they're being childish and can't stand being criticized.

Since I gather that about half the people left in some of those channels were taken out by this k-line, hey, might accelerate the move anyway. :D

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#84

Post by mst »

SaberUK wrote: post #81
dijit wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey Saber, Thanks for everything you do on inspircd and IRCv3, I've been using the former for my network for nearly 15 years now.

I'm glad you find my work useful. :)

Apparently rasengan likes it too

     inpspiricd is a good project
     but we'll make it way better
     sadie is pretty good for a noob
     but obviously its time to take things serious

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#85

Post by atoav »

imwillofficial wrote: post #52

I find the quote “never attribute to malice what could be explained by incompetence” to be woefully overused. People are often petty, mean spirited, and act irrationally. To throw your hands up and say “hey it was a mistake!” Without further reflection on the intention and purpose of an action is setting yourself up for failure. This does not mean do not be charitable. This means don’t be lazy and rely on a poorly fo…

I don't think this is the be way it works. Maybe at the first time I will not attribute to malice if it can be explained by incompetence.

But that individual will either way land on my "observe a little more carefully"-list which might give me more data to decide if they act maliciously or just incompetently.

What isn't successful at all is when you constantly suspect all others are doing everything for the most evil reason possible. Because this is really not the case in pracise and also has a cost that you need to carry.

Edit: although in this example one could argue explaining it by incompetence alone will need some major mental gymnastics.

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#86

Post by neilv »

geofft wrote: post #77
neilv wrote: post #23

Many IRC networks have had drama. But does anyone know the motivation for recent actions by Freenode? I'm discounting conspiracy theories (e.g., flipping, sabotage) because I think anyone acting strategically wrt IRC knows that forking an IRC network has been part of the standard toolkit for responding to "damage", since almost the start. I'm starting to lean towards a theory of there being no longer being a business…

Andrew Lee also claims to be the Crown Prince of Korea - because he claims to be distantly related to a very old king, contacted one of the aging claimants to the throne who has no male children, and organized a "ceremony" with him in a Vietnamese restaurant in Beverly Hills. I think if you want to form a theory of mind re his Freenode actions, you'd be well informed by forming a theory of mind re his Korea actions.…

That's a compelling theory (and I loved the "and a seafood entree" line), though I'd hope it's not the current situation.

In any case, I'm assuming Freenode is over, and that the only way it might be reborn is by abdicating the throne, and turning it over to something like a representative democracy (with a sufficiently reassuring foundation than the new spinoff).

(Incidentally, there was rare occasional young royalty or child actor on early IRC. I suppose because they had the money and time for Internet access, and the social isolation/barriers that made IRC relatively welcoming, so they could be just people. I never heard of any expecting special status on the Internet, in that time before Social Media Influencers.)

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#88

Post by geofft »

neilv wrote: post #86
geofft wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Andrew Lee also claims to be the Crown Prince of Korea - because he claims to be distantly related to a very old king, contacted one of the aging claimants to the throne who has no male children, and organized a "ceremony" with him in a Vietnamese restaurant in Beverly Hills. I think if you want to form a theory of mind re his Freenode actions, you'd be well informed by forming a theory of mind re his Korea actions.…

That's a compelling theory (and I loved the "and a seafood entree" line), though I'd hope it's not the current situation. In any case, I'm assuming Freenode is over, and that the only way it might be reborn is by abdicating the throne, and turning it over to something like a representative democracy (with a sufficiently reassuring foundation than the new spinoff). (Incidentally, there was rare occasional young royalt…

It's not over. It's alive and well, it just happens to be named "Libera" these days. The only thing 'rasengan actually bought was the rights to the name (including the domain registration) and, indirectly, a user base of forgotten bouncers that will be reconfigured next time they're used.

Note how the growth in the Libera graph parallels the drop in the Freenode graph: https://netsplit.de/networks/top10.php

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#89

Post by dragonwriter »

geofft wrote: post #77
neilv wrote: post #23

Many IRC networks have had drama. But does anyone know the motivation for recent actions by Freenode? I'm discounting conspiracy theories (e.g., flipping, sabotage) because I think anyone acting strategically wrt IRC knows that forking an IRC network has been part of the standard toolkit for responding to "damage", since almost the start. I'm starting to lean towards a theory of there being no longer being a business…

Andrew Lee also claims to be the Crown Prince of Korea - because he claims to be distantly related to a very old king, contacted one of the aging claimants to the throne who has no male children, and organized a "ceremony" with him in a Vietnamese restaurant in Beverly Hills. I think if you want to form a theory of mind re his Freenode actions, you'd be well informed by forming a theory of mind re his Korea actions.…

> There's no evidence that Lee has once participated in the yearly cultural ceremonies in Korea that honor the late royalty and still to this day involve members of the former royal house - the other claimant to the throne does that.

Technically, if I understand who you are referring to, that other person is a claimant to the position of head of the royal house; Unlike the line of claimants Lee is in, that line does not assert that the monarchy either still exists or should be restored. There waa another restoration claimant, but IIRC she passed without a designated heir, and no pretender has arisen with a claim through hers.

Re: Goodbye Freenode

#90

Post by lonjil »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #36
dTal wrote: post #15

While I agree that Libera is New Freenode and Old Freenode is rapidly dying a death, this whole episode has soured me mightily against Freenode as a whole. This should never have happened in the first place and the blame for it lies squarely at the OldFreenode/Libera admin's feet, not whichever outside actor took advantage of it. The admins are an "old boys network" - not chosen by the community, or elected, but simp…

Agree. It would have been great if the old staff and servers would have merged with OFTC, but it seems this wasn't even considered at any point. Nothing seems to have changed in that relation. But oh well, just another network to connect to until everything has maybe moved off freenode.

OFTC as far as I know is much stricter about on-topicness and such than freenode was, and Libera is a fair bit less strict than freenode was, so merging the old freenode with oftc would've required drastically changing oftc, which I'm sure no one would want.
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