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Why People Feel Like Victims

nautil.us

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Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#101

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

rayiner wrote: post #73
arp242 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was about 14 I was diagnosed with autism; specifically, PDD-NOS ("Pervasive Development Disorder Not Otherwise Specified"; nice catch-all). This diagnosis wasn't accurate, and was mostly based on my lack of social ability (I never really had most of the other signs of autism). Today I'm plenty sociable, and I'm basically just a normal guy. I can't blame them for making this misdiagnosis though. I grew up in a…

You make a good point about how your attitude affects your behavior. I see it with immigrants who didn't grow up in the south like I did. I've repeatedly heard "oh, I wouldn't want to go visit southern Virginia because of all the racists." I kid you not, I was just in southern Virginia with my white wife, our mixed kids, and a Chinese friend and her Jewish husband. It was great! Everyone was great. It's a lovely part…

You can be poor and still be a white supremacist, because white supremacy is not about being rich or successful. It's about believing that non-whites are not just irredeemably inferior and threateningly different, they're born that way.

Just because you personally haven't experienced it does not mean it doesn't exist. That's such a self-evident logical fallacy it shouldn't even need to be stated.

Systemic racism means that people are treated badly for the same reasons. It's why black lawyers are regularly asked if they're the defendant in court, why black youths are stopped and searched far more often than white youths, why there are obvious differentials in sentencing for identical crimes... and so on.

If you think these discussions are fraught, consider the position of those for whom this is about everyday experience and not just about "discussion" or "rhetoric."

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#102

Post by neolog »

WalterBright wrote: post #5

I'll be more brazen. I don't know about other countries, but if you live in the US and am an adult of sound mind and body, you're not a victim. If your life isn't working for you, reassess your situation, develop a plan, and get busy!

What does living in the US have to do with it? Different people do well or badly in every country.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#103

Post by BalinKing »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #93
WalterBright wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's never been easier and cheaper to get an education in the US, start a business, reach a global marketplace, learn how to do anything you want to do, etc. When I was young it was pretty much unheard of for people to get wealthy before 25. Now it's commonplace and unremarkable.

How do you define wealthy Walter? I’m 25 and “unremarkable” and my net worth is only a quarter million. I make about $200k at a company you’d probably consider unimpressive. Not everyone can be remarkable enough to go to CalTech.

I'm confused by your argument, because I'd consider making $200K/yr to be firmly on the side of wealthy. Also, I think he was talking about the circumstances being unremarkable, not the people themselves. (Minor note, since you brought it up: it's spelled "Caltech".)

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#104

Post by lfowles »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #99
lfowles wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some days I can't tell which comments on HN are parody and which aren't...

I’m sorry what seems to be satirical about my statement?

You're only a few years into your career, not saddled with an oversized tuition from a prestigious university, and already making $200k with a sizable net worth. In my books that's absolutely a path to wealth!

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#105

Post by refurb »

arp242 wrote: post #36
mhoad wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve not read the book but the first thing that came to mind was how does this explain the boomers? If I am understanding the premise correctly it’s implying there’s some meaningful distinction across generational lines about mental resilience? The last five years have made that abundantly clear that premise would have some real flaws in it.

Even before that; the religious right has been posing themselves as victims for decades. Bill O'Reily started talking about "you're no longer allowed to say 'Merry Christmas'" in the earlier '00s, which aside from being nonsense, is also a good example of their supposed victimhood.

I took that as more social commentary than victimhood. Victimhood would infer some real harm. O’Reilly never said that, just that the situation was ridiculous.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#106

Post by renewiltord »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #69
rayiner wrote: post #30

> So victimhood is a learned behavior after a certain age. As a brown guy with kids in the school system, that's why recent trends in education alarm me. I don't want my kids to be taught that there's this amorphous but pervasive "systemic racism" and "white supremacy" out to get people who look like them, but which they can't do anything about. It's dangerous experimentation with kids' psychology. Growing up as one…

As another person of color, I agree. What really makes me nervous is the talk of "white privilege". Although it is not meant as such, it is saying that in the world as is, all things being equal, white people are superior to people of color. For example, if you had to evaluate totally objectively whether you should hire a white CEO or a person of color as CEO, and they were otherwise equal, if you believe in the fram…

There are systemic injustices. If you're chasing pure outcome it is advantageous to be aware of them so that you can access underpaid underprivileged people or back people whose performance is boosted by privilege.

If you think that a founder being black makes it very hard for him to access debt because of systemic bias and his company plans heavily on debt financing, then yeah, it makes total sense to pass on it if you think the risk is too high.

On the other hand, if you're a black founder and the company you want to build requires you to heavily rely on debt financing, it makes perfect sense for you to spend less time worrying about injustice and more time making this thing work however you can knowing full well that people will pass on you (perhaps "unfairly"). After all, you can play and maybe lose or not play and definitely lose.

A founder I knew used to look for schools that had strong candidates but had low social cachet. He believed he would have an advantage hiring from there.

One particular liberal arts college had him hire almost their entire founding CS year. Almost all of those graduates were great. Other times the strategy didn't work out.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#107

Post by harimau777 »

WalterBright wrote: post #54
tdeck wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does being a victim imply that nothing can be done? It seems to me that the opposite could be the case. For example: If I'm the victim of a crime, the first step to reporting the crime is acknowledging that fact. Certain categories of criminals (con artists and sexual abusers) rely on the fact that victims are often reluctant to acknowledge their victimhood, even to themselves. This allows those individuals' beha…

> How does being a victim imply that nothing can be done? Because if you had no role in the matter, you couldn't have prevented it.

The fact that something in the past couldn't have been prevented doesn't mean that there's nothing to be done in the present.

There's also the fact that often you couldn't have prevented it.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#108

Post by kypro »

asiachick wrote: post #78

If you want some more thoughts from very articulate people of color on this topic try "Conversations with Coleman" https://colemanhughes.org/

Coleman is someone I wish everyone knew about. He’s changed my mind on a number of things and always seems to have unique well reasoned views on the subjects he speaks about.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#109

Post by kodah »

armenarmen wrote: post #76
arp242 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that didn't happen.

Who were the people that put forward the “say happy holidays not merry Christmas” issue? Or was the issue invented (and lost) by conservative talking heads?

> Who were the people that put forward the “say happy holidays not merry Christmas” issue?

I was one of these people for a time. Mainly because in certain places, like where I'm from, Christmas was pushed on people. I'm an atheist and those holidays are hard enough. I've been pressured into praying with people, whom when I would try to complain would effectively mock me. I was forced to go to church where a pastor (or priest) would talk about me by proxy, speaking about how terrible I am or how I was going to hell (yaaaaay brimstone and fire). That's just a couple examples, but I'm sure you can fill in the gaps. So, I got to be kind of a dick about it.

I have grown since then, and Christians have generally gotten more tolerant that not everybody pauses for their holidays. This "conversation" could've been a lot healthier though.

Re: Why People Feel Like Victims

#110

Post by renewiltord »

throwawayboise wrote: post #29
WalterBright wrote: post #2

It's popular to be a victim these days. Much more popular than I recall it being earlier in my lifetime. It even goes so far as to regard people who aren't victims with contempt.

Agreed. When I was young, victimhood was mostly scorned. "Don't be a crybaby." "Shake it off." "Toughen up." "Words can't hurt you." These were the messages I got from parents and teachers when I was feeling sorry for myself.

Sure. We all got these as kids. Twenty years later, I am much happier when I am able to communicate my unhappiness to people who care about me and who are able to get me through the tough times. Secure attachment is a pleasant thing.

But I'm not a safetyist. I much prefer to face the world as it stands. But I have a place of voluntary individuals who provide me support and I am stronger for it.

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