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Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

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Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#101

Post by ratsmack »

>At a press conference Sunday morning, DeSantis said officials are pumping out 33 million gallons of water a day from the pond, and that the water "is not radioactive," although another official added that the water is "not water we want to see leaving the site."

Maybe the title needs to be changed.

Edit:

>Phosphogypsum is the "radioactive waste" left over from processing phosphate ore into a state that can be used for fertilizer, according to the Center for Biological Diversity.

I guess the article has conflicting information.

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#102

Post by Animats »

jwmerrill wrote: post #100
lisper wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's not much that can be done with it because essentially (not basically) it is acid Couldn't you neutralize it by (say) dumping in a bunch of baking soda? Or lye? (Hm, what actually happens if you mix sulfuric acid with lye? Do they neutralize each other, or turn into something even nastier than the sum of its parts? That'll teach me to blow off high school chemistry.)

> what actually happens if you mix sulfuric acid with lye This reaction produces sodium sulfate (a salt) plus water and heat [1]. No idea if this is practical, though. Maybe it’s difficult to source sufficient quantities of some base to neutralize the acid. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_sulfate#Chemical_indu...

There are alkaline wastes. Steelwork slag, power plant fly ash, residues from concrete production, and, the big one, what's left of bauxite after making aluminum. It's probably possible to build a plant to combine them and get some neutral-pH solid out. Still have a heavy metal problem, though.

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#103

Post by Scoundreller »

nitrogen wrote: post #92
Scoundreller wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d argue that the average western person’s food budget comes from: 1) desire to eat « fresh » foods out-of-season (greenhouses, air transport, lengthy controlled-atmosphere storage) 2) feeding food to food and getting 1/10th back (feeding corn to a cow) 3) desire for labour-intensive foods. Potatoes can be straightforward harvested from a field by a machine. Alfalfa (or anything in a greenhouse) cannot. I think the…

Alfalfa is baled by machines, no?

It’s asparagus I was thinking about.

Was an issue in Germany:

https://m.dw.com/en/seasonal-workers-flock-to-germany-for-as...

As with many labour-intensive crops, people want to eat it, but not do the work involved themselves.

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#104

Post by Scoundreller »

IgorPartola wrote: post #79
Scoundreller wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d argue that the average western person’s food budget comes from: 1) desire to eat « fresh » foods out-of-season (greenhouses, air transport, lengthy controlled-atmosphere storage) 2) feeding food to food and getting 1/10th back (feeding corn to a cow) 3) desire for labour-intensive foods. Potatoes can be straightforward harvested from a field by a machine. Alfalfa (or anything in a greenhouse) cannot. I think the…

Why stop there? Nutritional algae genetically engineered to balance macro and micro nutrients with any artificial flavor and texture surely is cheaper. Grow it in a jar at home.

At the end of the day, an algae farm is solar powered and much lower yield than anything else you could grow with the same energy input.

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#105

Post by csense »

Is this waste a radiation hazard, or not?

The waste is a byproduct of fertilizer manufacturing and has nothing to do with nuclear power or weapons. For that reason, I doubt it's radioactive.

However, the article is contradictory on this point:

According to the article, Gov. DeSantis said the water "is not radioactive."

Also according to the article, the Center for Biological Diversity says "phosphogypsum is radioactive waste."

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#106

Post by Bjartr »

h2odragon wrote: post #20
BlueTemplar wrote: post #12

So, how radioactiove exactly it is ? I suppose it's the very bad kind of radioactive too, since water can easily be ingested ?

I'm guessing "not very radioactive" https://weather.com/news/news/2021-04-03-leak-at-florida-pho... > Hopes said Saturday afternoon that snook live in the pond that is in danger of collapsing and he has seen ducks swimming on top of it.

Something radioactive enough to significantly increase your chances to have cancer in your lifetime can have no indication at all at the time of exposure. It's one reason it's important to be so careful about radioactive waste and it's disposal.

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#107

Post by [deleted] »

pfdietz wrote: post #45
chiefalchemist wrote: post #21

> "For every ton of phosphoric acid produced, the fertilizer industry creates 5 tons of radioactive phosphogypsum waste..." Is that correct? That sounds unsustainable, as well as unprofitable. Also, is it safe to presume that if the cost of proper disposal was reflected in the price of food, food would be significantly more expensive? Finally, are there particular foods this is used for?

Phosphate is the most limiting long term global mineral resource. Eventually we're going to have to mine it from average rocks (at 0.1% concentration). There is no substitute if you want agriculture.

[deleted]

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#108

Post by dunce2021 »

freeopinion wrote: post #98
freeopinion wrote: post #78

Nevada is currently considering a "Bad Actors in Mining" bill to ban individuals from future business opportunities if they walk away without proper cleanup. https://www.leg.state.nv.us/App/NELIS/REL/81st2021/Bill/7477...

I'll just put this out there: Let's say a company spends 50 years building up acid ponds or radioactive tailings or what have you. Then new management comes on board and is appalled and tries to start cleaning things up, but realizes they are falling farther behind, so they divert more and more resources to cleaning up. And it drives the company into the ground because the cleanup now costs more money than the compan…

Yes, capitalism is very gay that way

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#109

Post by petertodd »

csense wrote: post #105

Is this waste a radiation hazard, or not? The waste is a byproduct of fertilizer manufacturing and has nothing to do with nuclear power or weapons. For that reason, I doubt it's radioactive. However, the article is contradictory on this point: According to the article, Gov. DeSantis said the water "is not radioactive." Also according to the article, the Center for Biological Diversity says "phosphogypsum is radioacti…

It's very mildly radioactive due to trace amounts of naturally occurring uranium and thorium (and the daughter isotopes they decay into). Those elements are present because they're in seawater, and the deposits it came from ultimately came from seawater drying. The "phosphogypsum is radioactive waste" claim is hype.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphogypsum

Re: Florida state of emergency with millions of gallons of “radioactive wastewater”

#110

Post by capableweb »

darkerside wrote: post #91
capableweb wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Repeating what you've already written (or outright copying it verbatim / quoting yourself) is hardly a effective strategy of making yourself better understood via the internet. You'll do better by expanding or simplifying your point of view instead.

It seemed like you missed the part where I pointed out that there are other ways than monetary to prevent undesirable behavior. These people can be jailed or lose the ability to work in this industry. The situation is not an indictment of capitalism, it's an example of a poorly handled situation.

Thanks for further clarifying!

Being jailed or loosing the ability to work in a industry isn't necessarily better for everyone involved, if the person is actually normally good at what they do.

A monetary fee for causing a disaster feels extra well in place for positions that people generally take for their monetary compensation as well (board, director, presidents, C* and so on).

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