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PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

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Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#101

Post by jordache »

swiley wrote: post #52
Luker88 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last month they even managed to fully open parts of the modem, and do calls without the closed blob for the firmware! https://twitter.com/biktorgj/status/1357217053745250304 (edit: caveat: they might not be able to actually ship the firmware since laws on this are very strict basically everywhere) The app store(s) is a bit of a problem, but in time it might be solved. Not a big problem for me.... But I'd also like to…

I hope the pinephone never has app stores. The "work with the community to merge your software into the repo" model is much better for things that actually help people. Apple's AppStore is best for extracting money from people while siloing their data.

> The "work with the community to merge your software into the repo" model is much better for things that actually help people.

So you ratchet up the friction for entry, that helps devs?

Say what you want about the app store, but across all the devs for iOS, how many would go through the trouble of self distributing their product? Marketing, infrastructure, payment system etc... ? The app store is a tremendously low friction way for market penetration.

Sure, we may need to calibrate the revenue sharing arrangement. However the "merge your software into the repo" as an either/or alternative is laughable.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#102

Post by sarabad2021 »

mindcrime wrote: post #96
wwarner wrote: post #20

I personally think that the effort to create open source phones is the single most important technology project going on out there. We have open source browsers, we have open source social apps, but we definitely do not have open source phones. Phones that can be truly owned and controlled by users will reshape the privacy discourse, from one of complaining and legal coercion, to one of choices and markets.

is the single most important technology project I'm not 100% sure I'd rank this as #1 on my list, but if not, it'd probably be at least #2 or #3. Open source phones (and tablets) are something I've been dreaming about and looking forward to for a very long time, and I'm happy this is finally starting to come to fruition.

Not from a personal point of view but from a global humanitarian point of view, mobile phones are how most people interact with the internet, technology, and the rest of the world. That should make it #1 on everybody's list. Right now 99.9999% of smartphones are closed source and closed hardware that is controlled by mega corps that don't have your best interests at heart.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#103

Post by pjmlp »

universa1 wrote: post #12
pjmlp wrote: post #7

> Device Warranty: 30 Days EU Law states two years regardless of manufacturer wishes. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/gua... => The two-year period starts from the day you received the product: And given it is shipped from Poland, it falls under it.

Warranty and guarantee ("Gewährleistung") are different things, at least in germany. Warranty is something provided freely by the manufacturer/supplier under whatever terms they want. Guarantee on the other hand is mandatory, and even though it's two years, after 6 months you have to prove the defect was there from the beginning, which is somewhat complicated for electronics...

If you do it on your own sure, but I usually offload such issues to Verbraucherzentrale and let them do the talk if there is no collaboration, usually it has an higher success rate when they come into play.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#104

Post by danShumway »

cesarb wrote: post #93
danShumway wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already use Linux with my bank and when I'm interacting with my government. And unlike on Android, the barrier of entry for me to write apps and set up quick solutions to problems is much lower. I don't need to run my code on a completely separate environment with no overlap. Emulation is going to be easier. I don't need to install Eclipse or whatever the heck Android devs tolerate now. That's part of the point of…

> I already use Linux with my bank and when I'm interacting with my government. I also use Linux with my bank. All banks I know of in my country require you to install an invasive "security software" (warsaw), even when you're using the web browser; some also require the phone app to be used as a second factor (for instance, one bank generates a dynamically changing QR code after you enter your password; you have to…

That's terrifying, and I deeply sympathize, but it seems like a government problem more than an app ecosystem or market problem?

It's not just that Linux isn't going to break the app store duopoly in your case, nobody is going to, because your government is effectively reinforcing that behavior. Forcing people to install root certificates on their devices is a problem on a whole 'nother level over just commercial incentives.

I just don't see how any technology or market-based solution will solve that problem. What happens when the government starts deciding that its authentication software won't work on rooted devices? What happens when the bank decides they need contact/GPS/camera permissions on your phone for "security"? I mean, that's not an app ecosystem problem at that point, it's just full-fledged required malware from your bank.

In the US (for all of the many, many faults with our trash-dump of a banking/federal ecosystem) at most I've only ever been asked to do 2FA using completely open standards, and the worst problem I've run into is that my bank's website won't load over some VPNs. I can even disable analytics on my bank's website and it'll still work.

But getting support on a Linux phone OS for what sounds to me at first blush like malware and spyware isn't really the best solution to what you're describing. The problem isn't that the malware isn't available on Linux, it's that you're forced to install malware on any of your computers, including iOS/Android.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#105

Post by whitepaint »

wwarner wrote: post #20

I personally think that the effort to create open source phones is the single most important technology project going on out there. We have open source browsers, we have open source social apps, but we definitely do not have open source phones. Phones that can be truly owned and controlled by users will reshape the privacy discourse, from one of complaining and legal coercion, to one of choices and markets.

Couldn't agree more. I really REALLY want to replace my Android smartphone. I want to own it the way I do my laptop running Linux.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#107

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

zepto wrote: post #100
amelius wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence smartphone OSes are a public utility, and should be opened up.

That really doesn’t follow. The web is already open, and banks are already regulated. Just mandate that banks provide access to their services via the web.

Web browsers lack an equivalent to Google's Safety Net, which banks are increasingly insisting on for security's sake.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#109

Post by viro »

CivBase wrote: post #95
viro wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must really like down votes because "single most important technology project going on out there" is quite the stretch. Hell, I would argue that over the last year during a pandemic doordash was more important(feeding people while letting them be socially distanced). People on this site like overestimate the avg. persons concern with privacy. the hardware toggles are cool tho.

Importance is subjective. Personally, I think the PinePhone project is much more important than an expensive restaurant delivery service.

But you're wrong tho. most lower income people in the states don't have cars and eat fast food a lot because well food deserts. Then the pandemic happens, well fast food stayed open. Opps one huge problem, only the drive-thrus are open. I can take hours to ride the bus to a grocery store and lug 50+ pounds of groceries, or I can just spend $1.99 to have food delivered.

EDIT: subjective yea, but come on dude people being able to eat is more important than google not knowing what type of porn I like.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#110

Post by zepto »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #107
zepto wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That really doesn’t follow. The web is already open, and banks are already regulated. Just mandate that banks provide access to their services via the web.

Web browsers lack an equivalent to Google's Safety Net, which banks are increasingly insisting on for security's sake.

That’s easily solved.
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