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Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

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101–110 of 276 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#101
post #10

I own a reMarkable 2. There is certainly enough to justify the cost, if you are a prolific note-taker. Conversely, I find it hard to justify the cost of an iPad, becuase I already have a phone and several laptops. I can't see a situation where a tablet would be more useful to me, so I've never bought one. Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that. Most people wou…

I would take one if i also could use it as replacement for my kindle.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#102
post #10

I own a reMarkable 2. There is certainly enough to justify the cost, if you are a prolific note-taker. Conversely, I find it hard to justify the cost of an iPad, becuase I already have a phone and several laptops. I can't see a situation where a tablet would be more useful to me, so I've never bought one. Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that. Most people wou…

Could you expound a bit on why you think it's more useful? I am thinking about getting one (or one of a couple other similar options), because I think it would be MUCH more comfortable for reading and annotating papers, which is my main practical use case for an iPad. And if it's at all a decent replacement for a paper notebook, that would reduce the number of things in my bag. But I'm also a bit worried that the org…

The remarkable is really good at feeling like pencil and paper, which mean it's really good for written notes. The epaper display is also nice for reading text in daylight.

The iPad has the Apple Pencil and it's not bad but for everything else the iPad is far better. You can annotate a pdf and send it somewhere else in different ways. It can take a or download a picture and mark it up. With the appstore it can handle and convert just about any file type. It also does a million other things like web browsing, chatting, videos, music and games. For most people that adds up to a more objective "useful" score.

But there is a huge charm and advantage for gadgets that are highly focused on a single function. For what it's worth I still sketch and take notes using a mechanical pencil and spiral bounded notebook.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#103
post #18

The company holding patents for e-ink is literally retarded, as if they don't want it to succeed. I'm not making this up. [1] Sure e-ink has its flaws, but wouldn't it be better to have a smaller slice of a much larger cake? OLED is patent encumbered too, there's also a patent holding company, despite that you can buy smallest modules for less than $2 on AliExpress. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22829798

I agree completely with your points, and I'm sorry be that guy, but "literally retarded" is offensive language and is frankly below the level of discourse of HN. I'm not one to be the PC police but really, come on. You can make your argument without resulting to slurs like that. https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-is-the-r-word-3105651

I once worked next door to a charity that had a name something like "Association For Retarded Citizens." It was very well loved and respected in the community.

Then the 1990's happened and it changed its name to something more politically correct like "Association For Individuals Of Differing Abilities." I found out when the big sign out front that i used to park by was changed.

A year or so later, the sign changed again. Back to "Association For Retarded Citizens." There was an article in one of the newspapers saying that donations dried up because nobody knew who they were or what they did anymore.

Just an interesting anecdote.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree and the people who are tying themselves into knots to justify using the r-word reminds of people who pointedly use the word "niggardly" instead of any number of synonyms just to get a rise out of the audience.

You just justified to yourself a reason to use an even more controversial word out of the blue in a contrived way. I hope you were being intentionally ironic.

It's less controversial than the r-word, which is why it's a good analogy. People who insist that it's okay to say one usually insist that it's okay to say the other one, because they don't understand the ways words hurt people.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#105
post #48
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely with your points, and I'm sorry be that guy, but "literally retarded" is offensive language and is frankly below the level of discourse of HN. I'm not one to be the PC police but really, come on. You can make your argument without resulting to slurs like that. https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-is-the-r-word-3105651

Don't necessarily disagree with you, but seeing as "the r word" is no longer used to refer to mentally disabled people it seems a little late to be campaigning to end its use as a pejorative _now_. If anything, these efforts should be directed towards ending the use of "autism" in a pejorative context, as if that trend isn't stopped then that term is up next on the euphemism treadmill. I also wonder if perhaps these…

After all, "idiot" used to refer to mentally disabled people and few would consider that word to be particularly offensive today.

And a "geek" used to be the guy in the carnival sideshow who would bite the heads off of live chickens.

Think about that the next time you see a Geek Squad van in your neighborhood.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#106
post #48
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely with your points, and I'm sorry be that guy, but "literally retarded" is offensive language and is frankly below the level of discourse of HN. I'm not one to be the PC police but really, come on. You can make your argument without resulting to slurs like that. https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-is-the-r-word-3105651

Don't necessarily disagree with you, but seeing as "the r word" is no longer used to refer to mentally disabled people it seems a little late to be campaigning to end its use as a pejorative _now_. If anything, these efforts should be directed towards ending the use of "autism" in a pejorative context, as if that trend isn't stopped then that term is up next on the euphemism treadmill. I also wonder if perhaps these…

It is still used as both a slur and a legitimate term.

But even if #1 is false it's not up to neuro-typicals to decide if that word is 'fair game.' It is up to that community.

And if they do reclaim the term like BIPOC we still have to understand and listen and not inject ourselves. Just like BIPOC use racist pejoratives - for many complex cultural reasons - it is not up to me/us a white guy to dictate or judge.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#107
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really necessary? Retard is not used to refer to people with mental disabilities. It is not a slur. Its a new social justice campaign to get mad about something when they ran out of things to complain about. Guess what, stupid, moron, idiot, etc used to refer to people with mental disabilities. Why aren't they campaigning to ban those words too?

> Guess what, stupid, moron, idiot, etc used to refer to people with mental disabilities. No, they were not. And despite what the "you get offended so quickly" mob says, "retarded" main meaning when used in a negative fashion against someone always, always appeals to the "that person/entity has the mental abilities of someone with Down syndrome or any other similar intellectual disability". And you, me and everybody…

I think you and others are missing the point of how language works.

The situation is similar to famous Dutch insults like Kankerlijer (cancer sufferer), Klerelijer (cholera sufferer), or Pleurislijer (tuberculosis suffer). Using these to insult people who indeed suffer from these diseases is questionable and can be rather tasteless. It may even be confusing and fail to work entirely. By the way, it's also wrong to insult sick people just because they are sick, and it's wrong to insult people with mental disabilities just because they have mental disabilities. But using such expressions to insult, swear, or exaggerate at healthy people is a quite normal function of the Dutch language. So Yes, if this e-ink company was indeed lead by people with mental disabilities, using the r-word to make fun of them would be rather tasteless and possibly also ineffective.

Swear words and insults work because they break a taboo. If you regulate language to avoid one taboo, then speakers will simply resort to breaking another taboo.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#108
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't necessarily disagree with you, but seeing as "the r word" is no longer used to refer to mentally disabled people it seems a little late to be campaigning to end its use as a pejorative _now_. If anything, these efforts should be directed towards ending the use of "autism" in a pejorative context, as if that trend isn't stopped then that term is up next on the euphemism treadmill. I also wonder if perhaps these…

I wonder if this is an age thing? Up until very very recently, “retarded” did mean what we now refer to as mentally disabled. It was a slur that people pushed back on just like the words that preceded it, but the pejorative figurative use won out. But it’s too recent to say that’s definitively not what it means anymore. It’s hard to date these kinds of things, but the first document I found was the social security ad…

Up until very very recently, “retarded” did mean what we now refer to as mentally disabled

When I was young, it meant children who were not developing either mentally or physically to the timeline of a statistically average child.

It was not necessarily a pejorative. It was just a fact.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#109

Throaway to not get sued. E-ink, the company, holds the patents of the pigment core tech that makes "paper-like" displays possible and strongarms the display manufacturers and the users of their displays to absolute silence. Any research project or startup that comes up with a better alternative technology gets bought out or buried by their lawyers ASAP. E-ink don't make the display themselves, they make the e-ink fi…

It’s so silly though, have they done real correct math on how much more they would make if everyone used it?

My mind immediately went to the most recent episode of NPR's Planet Money, where they explored buying rights to one of Marvel/Disney's +7,000 characters. Specifically, they tried licensing Doorman, an obscure joke of a hero who can teleport others.

Although they never said it outright, it sounded like the main deterrent is just anyone else making money with an angle Disney hadn't explored. It sounds similar to eInk refusing millions if it means someone else makes a greater fortune.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#110
post #18

The company holding patents for e-ink is literally retarded, as if they don't want it to succeed. I'm not making this up. [1] Sure e-ink has its flaws, but wouldn't it be better to have a smaller slice of a much larger cake? OLED is patent encumbered too, there's also a patent holding company, despite that you can buy smallest modules for less than $2 on AliExpress. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22829798

I agree completely with your points, and I'm sorry be that guy, but "literally retarded" is offensive language and is frankly below the level of discourse of HN. I'm not one to be the PC police but really, come on. You can make your argument without resulting to slurs like that. https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-is-the-r-word-3105651

As a synonym for "inexplicably, self-destructively foolish", the word "retarded" is effective, illustrative, and even more concise. As I said elsewhere downthread, I can't offhand come up with a better single phrase to describe the crew in charge of the E-Ink patents. And yes, I'm sure that says more about my limited linguistic faculties than anything else.

I do think it's important to point out that your taken offense is entirely your opinion. You are certainly entitled to that opinion, and I trust that you're coming from a good place, but I feel it's also important to acknowledge the occasional usefulness of language that you might be personally offended by.

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