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Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

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Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#101

Post by dang »

carapace wrote: post #97
dang wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't resist going further offtopic! Apologies to the thread. > Before that he was a scientific genius, and then, almost from that moment, he seems to descend into madness I'm not sure. With Reich, everyone picks the point at which they get off the train—almost no one is willing to ride all the way to the end with him. But people pick different points at which to bail. For some it is when he broke with Freud around…

Wow, you do know your stuff Dan G. I tip my hat to you sir. I love that you're fascinated by this stuff too. :) FWIW, I was 110% Reich for a long time (UFOs too, why not? He's obviously one of the intellectual titans of his age, I wasn't there, who am I to second guess him?) but then I read a particular biography (it's in storage and I don't recall the title or author, sorry, but it was sympathetic to Reich) and it s…

The answer to your question is I don't know. I guess I'm agnostic. He's too hard to assess objectively, and the resources to do it aren't available. By the way, there is a recent documentary about Reich that I haven't watched yet: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/wr1897.

> I'll see that and raise you Gurdjieff's Fourth Way embedded in the middle of "Meaning of Life" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2QJvc_SxFQ

Wow! That's incredible, and would have gone over my head when I saw the movie as a kid.

I wonder which Python was into that stuff. Perhaps Cleese? Edit: looks like it: https://theweek.com/articles/677504/john-cleeses-6-favorite-..., https://www.nytimes.com/1988/12/25/magazine/cleese-up-close..... Maurice Nicoll is another character; an early UK psychiatrist and son of a prominent Victorian critic, who was Jung's British colleague. Jung was asking him to lead his work in England, but by then Nicoll fell into the Gurdjieff/Ouspensky orbit and ran off to Fontainebleau. The books Cleese is referencing ("Psychological Commentaries" [etc.]) are Nicoll's lectures to his Gurdjieff group that went on through WWII until he died in the 1950s. They're a strange mix of sharp psychological observation and impenetrable esoterica.

If you're interested in Gurdjieff's influence in Britain, I recommend the memoir of J.G. Bennett, who encountered both Gurdjieff and Ouspensky when he was running British intelligence in Constantinople just after WWI: https://www.amazon.com/Witness-Story-Search-Collected-Bennet.... As an old man in the early 70s he became the spiritual teacher of a lot of English hippies, eventually including, of all people, Robert Fripp. You can hear Bennett's voice at the beginning of Fripp's new-wave dance record (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPQWHEu_rqQ), which also went over my head when I was a kid and frankly creeped me out. But what a great record! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPQWHEu_rqQ#t=12m

Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#102

Post by carapace »

dang wrote: post #101
carapace wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you do know your stuff Dan G. I tip my hat to you sir. I love that you're fascinated by this stuff too. :) FWIW, I was 110% Reich for a long time (UFOs too, why not? He's obviously one of the intellectual titans of his age, I wasn't there, who am I to second guess him?) but then I read a particular biography (it's in storage and I don't recall the title or author, sorry, but it was sympathetic to Reich) and it s…

The answer to your question is I don't know. I guess I'm agnostic. He's too hard to assess objectively, and the resources to do it aren't available. By the way, there is a recent documentary about Reich that I haven't watched yet: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/wr1897 . > I'll see that and raise you Gurdjieff's Fourth Way embedded in the middle of "Meaning of Life" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2QJvc_SxFQ Wow! That's…

> The answer to your question is I don't know. I guess I'm agnostic. He's too hard to assess objectively, and the resources to do it aren't available.

Eh? There are a handful of Reichian therapists around, cloudbusters are pretty cheap to make, I don't think they'll arrest you for building an orgone accumulator, etc.

I'm not seriously suggesting you go out and mess around with this stuff but I'm curious about your motivation. Did you just read about it and never try any of it?

I was looking to cure my depression so I tried things. Now my depression is cured but I feel like a visitor from the future. I went too far too fast, raced out ahead of consensus reality, and now I have a kind of reverse futureshock. I can feel a rant coming on so I'll cool it. I'm bored and lonely and everyone's problems seem so simple and easy to solve... Y U NO Golden Age already Humanity!?

Aaaaaaanyway...

> I wonder which Python was into that stuff. Perhaps Cleese?

Yeah. He used to have an old flash site and there was a video there of him doing a kind of talking-head fireside chat bit, and halfway through that he starts talking about Gurdjieff. Blew me away. After that, I guess I was primed to see it, that scene I mean. It's incredible to think that they wrote that and filmed it and stuck it in there as a killer joke: the Meaning of Life is in "The Meaning of Life".

It's interesting how they set it up: there's basically a post-hypnotic suggestion to get distracted and then sudden attack by the Crimson Assurance acts as an amnesia induction pattern.

I wonder if they told anyone? I mean there had to be a group of people in on the joke, yeah? I've never heard of anyone else noticing that scene and making the connection to Gurdjieff, but then I don't get out much. At all. (I'm kind of a recluse. In fact, this HN account is pretty much my only connection to the outside world. Great work btw dang. I can't tell you how grateful I am to you for all you do. I owe you. If you're ever in Southwestern SF and want to experience some Chi or other weird shit get in touch.)

I met John Cleese once and roundly failed to serve him popcorn. I was working at a movie theater in Santa Barbara and he came in with a date to see "In the Name of the Father". Slow night. Empty lobby. I looked up and there he was. He's tall. Over six feet. I managed a sentence or two before I just started stammering. One of the other kids had to step up and serve him while I leaned against the wall and just gaped like a fish. He was ver British, didn't notice, might have been waiting to catch a bus. I thought that was wonderful of him, and his date was really enjoying it. :) They left via the side door... heh

> If you're interested in Gurdjieff's influence in Britain

Nah, like I said, once my depression was cured I lost interest. Not proud of it but there it is.

Cheers dude, well met!

Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#103

Post by amitoz_azad »

cercatrova wrote: post #75
andrei_says_ wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we call Yoga in the west is mostly appropriation. The rest is misunderstanding because the concept does not fit in thinking western minds. The best we get is what tae bo is to professional boxing. Source: conversations and experiences with someone who had the fortune to study both in New Delhi yoga university and with a Yoga lineage in the Himalayas. The official university still didn’t touch, or know, of essent…

What practices specifically in yoga do you speak of? I honestly appreciate that people in the west have secularized both yoga and meditation, as I personally find no value in the spiritual aspects and only find value in the exercise in the case of yoga and helping psychologically in the case of meditation. I'm curious to hear your perspective though, it seems to be different from mine.

The word Yoga comes from the root "yog" in Sanskrit. It literally means "sum", "union". Yoga is to be in union with nature. It happens when one is living harmoniously.

Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#104

Post by mathemagical »

lonesword wrote: post #92
mathemagical wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cultural appropriation refers to the use of objects or elements of a non-dominant culture in a way that doesn't respect their original meaning, give credit to their source, or reinforces stereotypes or contributes to oppression. - Google The problem here is not invention. The problem here is that aliabramovitz and company "like to stay away from those [theological] aspects as it can be off putting for people who don'…

> The problem here is not invention. The problem here is that aliabramovitz and company "like to stay away from those [theological] aspects as it can be off putting for people who don't subscribe to a certain philosophy or theology", in a subject matter where the original theology is a core part of it, and that too a theology that is not aliabramovitz's own theology in order to cater to people who dislike the theolog…

And as a Hindu (the aforementioned theology in this discussion) I will point out that yoga is not a stand alone exercise or something that needs to entertain you in order for you to continue to practice it, but rather part of a whole discipline of preparing your body in order to sit down and meditate for long periods of time.

And this is the exact reason that these practices should not be divorced from their theological fundamentals in the way that White Abrahamics practice it.

And this is also why you as an Indian should not be happy to let the whole be stripped into parts and sold for money and commoditized down to an entertainment or sport that you are "bored" by.

Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#105

Post by dmje »

marc_io wrote: post #61

I find it a little problematic when these ancient practices are separated from their broader context. There are further, unknown implications by doing so. It is similar to what was done with what we call "Yoga" here in the west. I am not saying that these practices cannot evolve, they must. But they are certainly part of a tradition that has been coherently applied and studied for centuries. In my opinion the result…

Agree. There’s a sort of woo popularity thing with a large tranche of mindfulness which is a bit too goal oriented and westernised for my tastes. I mean, each to their own but for me it’s a bit like abridged classic novels or pseudo classical renderings of Beethoven: it may have the essence of the real thing but in simplifying and “making easy”, it’s also loses much of the depth and richness. Proust and Beethoven aren’t meant into be “easy” or “accessible”, but if you make the effort, your life is richer because of that. Feels the same to me with meditative practice. I’m all for more people doing it but it all too easily feels transient, a passing fad, something that will only be popular with people while it’s fashionable. I’ve found the deeper parts of my practice by persevering through the hard times, by beginning to understand how grasping the human (particularly western) mind is, and by just sitting.

Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#106

Post by lonesword »

mathemagical wrote: post #104
lonesword wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem here is not invention. The problem here is that aliabramovitz and company "like to stay away from those [theological] aspects as it can be off putting for people who don't subscribe to a certain philosophy or theology", in a subject matter where the original theology is a core part of it, and that too a theology that is not aliabramovitz's own theology in order to cater to people who dislike the theolog…

And as a Hindu (the aforementioned theology in this discussion) I will point out that yoga is not a stand alone exercise or something that needs to entertain you in order for you to continue to practice it, but rather part of a whole discipline of preparing your body in order to sit down and meditate for long periods of time. And this is the exact reason that these practices should not be divorced from their theologi…

>but rather part of a whole discipline of preparing your body in order to sit down and meditate for long periods of time.

The implication being that this is the sole purpose of Yoga and there is no benefit in viewing it as yet another point of exercise? A hypothetical:

I have no interest in meditating for long hours, but practicing yoga and the "it helps you calm down" kool-aid that marketers promote actually helps me. It's not the "real thing", and I have an inkling that without the spiritual aspect I am missing out on a lot. However, I continue to practice it since I derive some benefits from doing so, and have no inclination to pursue the matter deeper.

^ I honestly see nothing wrong with the above scenario. I would accept someone who "dabbles" in Yoga without caring for its spiritual aspects the same way I accept someone who lifts weights 5 days a week but completely ignores nutrition. Sub-optimal? Yes. Should it be condemned? No.

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