Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#101

Post by beaner » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:57 PM UTC

ardy42 wrote: post #84

efwfwef wrote: post #21

If people had called one another to prepare this, would we say that the phone was responsible for the attack? And would we try to ban phones?

> If people had called one another to prepare this, would we say that the phone was responsible for the attack? And would we try to ban phones? That's a moot point, because an attack like this can't realistically be organized via one-to-one communication. It needs a broadcast medium, which the phone network isn't.

Is CNN, a broadcast television network, considered a broadcast medium for attacks and terrorism for promoting and defending violent riots, and for giving reach to similar statements of support and justification from congress members such as AOC and Nancy Pelosi?

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#102

Post by godelski » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:58 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #52

earthscienceman wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phones don't pretend to be a moderated public platform. Also, the government has the legal right to monitor phones just as much as they do Facebook via the correct warrants.

Yea the difference in my mind is that the phone company does not moderate content or exercise editorial control over what gets sent over its lines, but Facebook does. So if Facebook decided that this kind of user generated content was acceptable to publish, they should be liable for the resulting problems.

I'm not sure Facebook is acting like an editor here. Those approve every post. Facebook can't practically do they. I'm critical of this case because it's a large group and thus Facebook should have been aware, but it seems like it's a tall order to ask Facebook to migrate everything. Isn't this what section 230 is about? Before you either migrate all our not at all. 230 let's you at least try to moderate (because let's be real, you can't moderate a billion people)

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#103

Post by osgovernment » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:58 PM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #90

lhorie wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't phone lines also technically managed by private companies? AFAIK, postal service is a public service, but not phones.

I think the parent is referring to how phones are Title II common carriers.

Based on the centralization of hosting and cloud services, it is about time that we re-evaluate ISPs and cloud providers.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#104

Post by hetspookjee » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:58 PM UTC

bananabreakfast wrote: post #71

beefee wrote: post #45

It's chilling how quickly the tech industry has coalesced around oppressive and biased social media censorship policies. A scant few years ago, the tech industry was a beacon of free expression.

It's chilling how quickly radical terrorist groups have coalesced around using social media to coordinate their hatred and their attacks. A scant few years ago, America actively fought terrorists instead of encouraging and facilitating them.

Off topic but I'm having increasingly more difficulty with the term Terrorist. How'd you call American intrusions in sovereign states? Just somewhat recently the drone strike of the General Soleimani on sovereign grounds were an act of terrorism if perceived through the eyes of most Iranians, and possibly Iraqis as the strike was on their ground. Terrorist is a term that is stretched and applied beyond meaning.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#105

Post by betterunix2 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:58 PM UTC

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #13

trident5000 wrote: post #4

Still in the app stores I see.

I'm sure public support for removing Facebook from app stores wouldn't be too different than Parler. If we are principled people, and FB is failing to moderate, then any reasonable person who supported Parler's removal would support Facebook's. What would be different between the two decisions is the sheer magnitude of money on the line, in the case of Facebook's removal -- in capital markets, in employment, etc.

Facebook is not failing to moderate. Moderation is hard and everyone knows that, but Facebook has been improving their moderation techniques and policies for years. Unlike Parler and Gab, Facebook is actually putting in the effort to moderate and was not created to be a safe haven for terrorists who were banned from other platforms.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#106

Post by trident5000 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:58 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #99

trident5000 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the terrorists who caused 1-2 billion in damage this summer and destroyed peoples livelihoods with a dozen deaths over a false narrative according to public and easily accessible FBI statistics, and also the terrorists who stormed the capital. Both sets of terrorists who are coordinating on all of the platforms.

Where is this $20B number coming from? It doesn't appear to reflect reality. https://www.axios.com/riots-cost-property-damage-276c9bcc-a4...

I stand corrected and edited. Its still a non trivial amount and apparently "most expensive riot in history" according to your source.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#107

Post by JohnBooty » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

beefee wrote: post #45

It's chilling how quickly the tech industry has coalesced around oppressive and biased social media censorship policies. A scant few years ago, the tech industry was a beacon of free expression.

It's chilling how quickly misinformation merchants, hostile foreign agents, and other bad actors coalesced around using popular mainstream social media as the world's most effective megaphone.

A scant few years ago, they lacked a direct communications channel by which they could radicalize the average American.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#108

Post by bdamm » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

trident5000 wrote: post #68

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parler explicitly advertises itself as a place of little or no moderation. Facebook has something like 15,000 professional content moderators whose job is so terrible that they literally get PTSD, but Facebook still fails to catch a lot of it. Being not great at moderation and actively advertising yourself as an unmoderated forum are fairly different lines.

Why does Apple and Google as a duopoly get to determine what businesses must do and not do to exist? (from a practical perspective not a legal one) For me that's the real question.

Because Apple and Google produced viable platforms that people want. Microsoft, Blackberry, and Palm all attempted to do something similar, and the market didn't coalesce around their offerings. Even Amazon tried with kindle/fire. Part of the reason this happens is that developers only have so much ability to diversify, so this is a natural marketplace where only a few big players can survive.

The Internet of the 1990's is still alive by the way. Anyone can put up their message on a website provided by a host of their choice.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#109

Post by ttt0 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

spoonjim wrote: post #9

Simulacra wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you. The evidence appears to support that conclusion, so I'm trying to understand why Facebook is given a pass. IMO Facebook has been the single greatest catalyst for abusive online behavior in twenty years, but it's in a protected class. I would like to know why. Is it just money?

It’s also, what functions does Facebook serve beyond organizing violence? Clearly it’s a lot. You can reasonably discuss banning handguns because they are only used to commit violence. You can’t reasonably discussing the ban of all knives, telling people who ask “how am I supposed to cook?” that they just need to bite their food into little pieces.

Are you implying that Parler was created specifically to organize violence? If that's what you're saying then please provide a clear evidence that proves this is the case. Saying something like that just seems really dishonest in most, if not all, contexts.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#110

Post by kube-system » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:00 PM UTC

Simulacra wrote: post #6

akmarinov wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook was way more responsible than Parler.

I don't disagree with you. The evidence appears to support that conclusion, so I'm trying to understand why Facebook is given a pass. IMO Facebook has been the single greatest catalyst for abusive online behavior in twenty years, but it's in a protected class. I would like to know why. Is it just money?

I think people treat Facebook differently than Parler because Facebook is a mainstream communications platform and Parler was founded specifically to host content that other platforms found objectionable.