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Google is getting left behind due to horrible UI/UX

danielmiessler.com

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Re: Google is getting left behind due to horrible UI/UX

#101

Post by robertlagrant »

KirinDave wrote: post #75
ewmiller wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This makes them feel unsafe at work. I wonder how long my employment would last if I just stopped doing a good job and then said that as a response to any effort by my manager or teammates to criticize my output.

It's amazing to me that something as innocuous as, "Professional conduct includes at least an attempt at constructive criticism as opposed to venting" is now a heretical concept on this website.

No one mentioned heresy.

No one mentioned venting.

No one mentioned constructive criticism.

Other than that, good job.

Re: Google is getting left behind due to horrible UI/UX

#102

Post by mikelanza »

The most fundamental problem at Google, of which bad UX/UI is one symptom, is that product management has no real power there. Engineering has all the power there, and basically does whatever it likes. It takes product management research as "input" for its decisions, but does not share power with product management.

Strong, competent product management balances user needs, marketplace conditions (competing and complementary products), and technological factors to create optimal products. What we see from the outside are products that are technologically strong, but suffer from lack of useful user perspective and market awareness.

Google will never create new (i.e. post search and AdWords) great products until it undergoes a complete cultural transformation toward a product management-focus.

Re: Google is getting left behind due to horrible UI/UX

#103

Post by smsx »

mgkimsal wrote: post #42
mdwelsh wrote: post #14

I used to work at Google, as an engineering director on the Chrome Mobile team. While I agree that the UX of many Google products needs fixing, it's not just a simple matter of "Google, you are made out of money. Fix your fucking interfaces." The article misses a really important point that you can't just revamp the UX for a product used by billions of users without some pretty serious blowback. Startups like Notion…

> ... without making some really major changes that are highly disruptive. Now, you could just say that Google should bite the bullet and hit reboot on some of its bad UX decisions from years ago. They don't seem to have much of a problem EOL-ing products. THAT is often far more disruptive to large swathes of people. Perhaps not billions, but I would hazard to say millions of people have been affected by various prod…

Once you EOL a product, you no longer have to support it. Not the same case at all as making changes to a core product and then continuing to support it.

Re: Google is getting left behind due to horrible UI/UX

#105

Post by notacoward »

anonygler wrote: post #17

As a former Googler, Google has been utterly hostile to self critcism on this front. Responses to any criticism of Google's UI falls in the following buckets: - Well I think it looks great. - Stay in your lane, how dare you criticize our designers. This makes them feel unsafe at work. (Whatever the fuck that means) - We did a user study and they liked it, so it must be good. Fundamentally, Googlers are afraid to make…

> Engineers are also sandbagged with "we need more data" until a risk-taking idea gets snuffed out of existence.

Not at Google, but what I saw was worse than that. It was "we need more data" over and over and, on each round, I could watch other people's riskier changes just fly by without a shred of evidence that they even did what they were claimed to (let alone that they were beneficial). "Need more data" is not always just inertia. It's often a way of defending territory or enforcing hierarchy. Being "data driven" only really works when it's done consistently, and abuses called out.

Re: Google is getting left behind due to horrible UI/UX

#107

Post by discordance »

websterisk wrote: post #57
ogjunkyard wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Inbox was so good. I was honestly shocked that they got rid of what felt like true innovation in the email space (at the time).

And any hands for Google Reader? I don't think any other tool has had that level of impact on my content consumption, prior or since. It was everything it needed to be and not anything more. RIP.

I don’t know if it would still work well these days, but when Google Reader left I genuinely felt less information-abled

Re: Google is getting left behind due to horrible UI/UX

#108

Post by kepler1 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #40
anonygler wrote: post #17

As a former Googler, Google has been utterly hostile to self critcism on this front. Responses to any criticism of Google's UI falls in the following buckets: - Well I think it looks great. - Stay in your lane, how dare you criticize our designers. This makes them feel unsafe at work. (Whatever the fuck that means) - We did a user study and they liked it, so it must be good. Fundamentally, Googlers are afraid to make…

"This makes them feel unsafe at work." This is modern office equivalent of nuking the opponent in war.

Hey, this is a byproduct of too-sensitive people (and I have to admit liberal enablers) allowing feelings to become what you get judged by, or legitimized to take offense based on. And any offense is legitimate, because it's all relative. You cannot question anyone's taking offense.

Any legitimate criticism of someone's work turns into a personal attack, or worse, "bullying".

This is not a reasonable position to take, and will come back to bite liberal people, either in work, government, or policy. Otherwise you will find officials, managers, leaders, politicians, yes even yourself, taken down by offended people, because there is always someone who will take offense, no matter how illegitimate. Just wait until you get on the wrong side of it, you'll change your mind quickly.

Someone has to make a call about what is reasonable, and what is legit to be offended about. I don't want it to be in the hands of the people who are always offended, I'll tell you that.

Re: Google is getting left behind due to horrible UI/UX

#109

Post by fwip »

anonygler wrote: post #17

As a former Googler, Google has been utterly hostile to self critcism on this front. Responses to any criticism of Google's UI falls in the following buckets: - Well I think it looks great. - Stay in your lane, how dare you criticize our designers. This makes them feel unsafe at work. (Whatever the fuck that means) - We did a user study and they liked it, so it must be good. Fundamentally, Googlers are afraid to make…

Could you expand on: "Stay in your lane, how dare you criticize our designers. This makes them feel unsafe at work?" Your quote seems a little bit like a disingenuous paraphrasing of real issues, but I try not to dismiss things just because they're surprising to my world view.

I would be interested in seeing what kind of feedback (internal? external?) prompted this sort of response.

Re: Google is getting left behind due to horrible UI/UX

#110

Post by SamBam »

Spivak wrote: post #95
inglor_cz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This makes them feel unsafe at work." This is modern office equivalent of nuking the opponent in war.

I like how someone at work says "hey this isn't the normal level of professional criticism and feedback you get from coworkers -- the level of anger I receive makes me genuinely fear for my safety." and the response is to assume that it's an overreaction. If someone is saying this they're taking a huge risk because it if people don't take them seriously it's over for them. Like we've all been on the internet in tech…

Is that seriously what you assume internal criticism over designs at Google sounded like?
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