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Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

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Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#101
The 'M.B.A.-ization' of the corporate west -- it's not just the U.S. where this is happening -- is in some ways a specific example of a more general problem in which professions that just don't need robust credentialism aspired to do just that. They wanted to seem as important as the medical or engineering disciplines were. There are very valid reasons we don't just let anyone design a bridge or prescribe medicine. We make people who aspire to do that jump through a bunch of hoops to protect all of society from the downside risk that would follow if we didn't do this. In return, society confers on these people prestigious credentials so only they can perform medical duties and professional engineering tasks.

Universities just so happened to be a practically convenient location for medical doctors and professional engineers to get their education. But universities were never supposed to be general vocational learning institutions.

Business schools are just one department in a long line who wanted to push the notion that people need to jump through their hoops to learn a particular discipline well enough to perform a role professionally. Nothing could be further from the truth and in pushing this myth, they've helped contribute to systemic fault lines that could ultimately undermine western society and democracy itself. They've heavily indebted learning that people were traditionally paid to do via apprenticeship. They have invented credentials for disciplines which don't need them and offer no financial path to ever provide a return on the learning investment. They've promoted the idea that useful learning can only happen within their walls and under their syllabus.

But I'm off on a tangent. Business schools specifically have essentially been cosplaying as something they are not: schools teaching a rigourous applied science. As Medical School is to Biology, Math and Chemistry, Business School is to Economics. But economics as a social science had just not advanced far enough along to provide meaningful insight. So business schools did the next best thing which was to create the illusion of an advanced science by helping backfill, promote, and apply bullshit economic theory. This went hand-in-hand with a conscious effort to create prestige like the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Science.

But the illusion is starting to all fall apart under the scrutiny of disastrous political policies, gutted zombie corporations, and a broken social contract, all under their direct sphere of influence. The irony is that in aspiring to have the same prestige as doctors and engineers, business schools have actually done far more damage to society, the environment, and our future than they could have hoped to imagine if they went back to their traditional proprietary school roots.

Business schools are very worried that society will realize that being a smart autodidact is a better recipe for success in business than paying six figures to earn an M.B.A..

If this rant resonated with you, here's an interview with the author of book, called Nothing Succeeds Like Failure: The Sad History of American Business Schools: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/10/04/author-discus...

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#102

He is onto something there. Bean counting is useful and companies cannot survive without good cashflow, but it should not become Mission A of the company, or engineering (and other) talent will look elsewhere. If one company's de facto mission statement is "We want to grow our market by 8.2 per cent and give our bosses higher Christmas bonuses" and another one comes and says "Guys, we want to fly to fscking Mars!", c…

The book "Good Strategy, Bad Strategy" discusses this. There seems to be a group of people that think that "grow by 8.2 percent" is a strategy. It is not, it is a goal. Companies with a good strategy will eat the lunch of a company who doesn't know what a strategy is.

I absolutely love that book! I can’t recommend it enough.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#103
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our society has plenty of Elon Musks. Their being snuffed out by a academic system designed to churn out people can repeat "the correct answer". Heterodox thinking is a liability not an asset in Academia now. Along with the fact that most people don't even have the option to take risk with the massive increase of cost of housing. Our society has been designed to squeeze out cash flow and it's smothering our creatives…

It's weird, most of my personality traits that were liabilities going through school have become massive assets in the workforce. I only hung onto those traits through sheer stubbornness, despite the school system's continuous efforts to stamp them out.

I'm stubborn too. I find my traits are still working against me. Neither bosses nor professors like their mistakes being called out. And it seems being well networked or making a good impression is more important than actual work or results (you're better off with the abilities to build junk and sell junk, than with the abilities to build good stuff and sell nothing)

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#104
post #6

Finally, he says something I can agree with. MBAs are for optimizing stable firms. They're walking death for startups, I personally have seen it happen.

Forsure, intel comes to mind when you say this. Focus on profits, milk 14nm, screw R&D for 10nm and appoint the CFO to CEO. Perfect combination for the current market where intel is dying and AMD ate their lunch.

Contrast that to AMD which has an engineer with a PHD in engineering from MIT as there CEO.

Look whos eating whos lunch now.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#105
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric cars are 2.6% of cars sold, and Tesla is 18% of that EV market. That's not really any proof that the MBA's are "ruining" other car markers, is it? 1 - https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2020 2 - https://electrek.co/2020/10/30/tesla-tsla-market-share-globa...

It is if you consider the stock market to be reality

The stock market is not reality. Especially TSLA.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#106

What’s the point of an MBA? Asking anyone this question who pursues the degree or has pursued the degree or insists on its value, often gives a non-answer. Like the following: * it helps with networking. * it helps with promotion. * it helps with advancement in career. * it helps with your resume. Boiling it down, “I can show off better and tout an imaginary quality”. If I was a person who was self employed or runnin…

"I've come to the conclusion that a degree I don't have and have never taken any classes in cannot help anyone and is a big negative for a person". Seems a very broad generalization, doesn't it?

I think they teach you this in engineering school.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#107

What’s the point of an MBA? Asking anyone this question who pursues the degree or has pursued the degree or insists on its value, often gives a non-answer. Like the following: * it helps with networking. * it helps with promotion. * it helps with advancement in career. * it helps with your resume. Boiling it down, “I can show off better and tout an imaginary quality”. If I was a person who was self employed or runnin…

"I've come to the conclusion that a degree I don't have and have never taken any classes in cannot help anyone and is a big negative for a person". Seems a very broad generalization, doesn't it?

You can observe how a group behaves and fail to find anyone who can argue their case without joining the group.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird, most of my personality traits that were liabilities going through school have become massive assets in the workforce. I only hung onto those traits through sheer stubbornness, despite the school system's continuous efforts to stamp them out.

I'm stubborn too. I find my traits are still working against me. Neither bosses nor professors like their mistakes being called out. And it seems being well networked or making a good impression is more important than actual work or results (you're better off with the abilities to build junk and sell junk, than with the abilities to build good stuff and sell nothing)

Oh yeah stubbornness isn’t one of the traits I meant as good. I only meant that stubbornness is all that allowed me to keep certain good traits from being stamped out.

It can just as easily (and in my case also sometimes has) prevented some bad traits from being stamped out. So I need to consciously go way overboard with “I could just as well be wrong” to balance out my natural stubbornness.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are they doing? Honestly interested, I didn't shop much at Whole Foods pre-acquisition.

they've stripped surplus value from their offering..

Ive only noticed more value at lower prices as a consumer of whole foods since the takeover.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#110

> “I think there might be too many M.B.A.s running companies,” the Tesla Inc. chief executive said. “There should be more focus on the product or service itself, less time on board meetings, less time on financials.” > Many business-school leaders shot back, saying that Mr. Musk’s comments don’t match the reality of what is taught in M.B.A. programs and that more students than ever who are pursuing the graduate degre…

I think that's being uncharitable to "business-school leaders".

Ignoring the people who are going to business school for a two year vacation, which a lot of M.B.A.s do, there's a growing contingent of people who are going in with technical skills and experience. I think business schools deserve some credit for that.

There are still plenty of people from non-technical backgrounds hoping to be your traditional M.B.A.s, but the culture is shifting in the right (IMO) direction.

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