Raspberry Pi 4 V3DV graphics driver achieves Vulkan 1.0 conformance • Hacker News Board

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 V3DV graphics driver achieves Vulkan 1.0 conformance

#101

Post by Const-me » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 10:12 AM UTC

_mm8b wrote: post #96

Const-me wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re OK with .NET, you can try my library: https://github.com/Const-me/Vrmac/ The library supports both X windows, and bare OS kernel DRM/KMS. Spinning textured cube: https://github.com/Const-me/Vrmac/tree/master/RenderSamples/... Spinning teapot with lightning, inertia, mouse and keyboard input, etc: https://github.com/Const-me/Vrmac/tree/master/RenderSamples/... Dependencies: https://github.com/Const-me/Vrmac/…

Thanks kindly, will take a look.

BTW, that thing also supports Windows 10. The same .NET binary runs on top of Direct3D 12 there, instead of GLES 3.1.

Way easier to debug on Windows, because visual studio and renderdoc. There’re a few incompatibilities but these are minor. Here’s one example, in a vertex shader: https://github.com/Const-me/Vrmac/blob/master/RenderSamples/...

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 V3DV graphics driver achieves Vulkan 1.0 conformance

#102

Post by qwerty456127 » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 10:31 AM UTC

rkangel wrote: post #50

qwerty456127 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually wish there was a more powerful Raspberry PI. Whenever you say you want more powerful the answer is the current way it's primary goal is to be affordable and its primary target audience are schools etc. E.g. The standard version of the Pi 400 with 4 GB covers most (consumer / school children / students) application purposes. 8 GB are rather needed in the area of video editing / prosumer / server, and would…

> The vendor just doesn't want to acknowledge the real role of Raspberry Pi is not limited to being a cheap tinkerer board anymore The vendor is a charity with a mission that they have chosen [1]. They can target the Pi however they want to meet that mission. The fact that it doesn't happen to do something that you want it for is your problem not theirs. There has been a virtuous cycle that something originally aimed…

>> The vendor just doesn't want to acknowledge the real role of Raspberry Pi is not limited to being a cheap tinkerer board anymore

> The vendor is a charity with a mission that they have chosen. They can target the Pi however they want to meet that mission.

I don't say they can't, I say that doesn't really reflect the actual reality. Many people buy it just because it's THE thing and a somewhat uniform standard so it's easier to target and to benefit from the existing ecosystem around it.

This also is a real role among those Raspbery PI plays in the real world. This is a fact the vendor marketing seemingly ignores - such is the meaning of my statement.

I don't judge them or demand anything.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 V3DV graphics driver achieves Vulkan 1.0 conformance

#103

Post by Const-me » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 11:32 AM UTC

gary_0 wrote: post #97

Const-me wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An extremely rough estimate, FFT (prolly the most expensive one of what you mentioned) needs 5N*Log2(N) operations. If you have 1M source floats and want 60 FPS, translates to only 6 GFlops. On Pi4, on paper the GPU can do 32 GFlops. Again on paper, the CPU can do 8 FLOPs/cycle which translates (4 cores at 1.5 GHz) to 48 GFlops. That’s assuming you know what you’re doing, writing manually-vectorized C++ http://const.…

It still gives me a giggle that the flops numbers you're talking about were supercomputer-level when I was a kid, and now I can buy that kind of power with beer money and lose it in the back of a drawer.

On the other hand, it’s sad how we failed the software.

We have devices capable of many GFlops in our pockets and many TFlops on our desks, yet we pay by hours to use computers operated by companies like Amazon or Microsoft.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 V3DV graphics driver achieves Vulkan 1.0 conformance

#104

Post by zepto » Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 4:35 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #98

zepto wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overhead is typically 40-50% for this kind of corporation. So not really enough. However the calculation has nothing to do with what guessing a reasonable hourly rate. The issue is whether someone with the expertise to do this would benefit the company and their own career more doing something other than a tech support role.

> Overhead is typically 40-50% for this kind of corporation. So not really enough. Even assuming 50% overhead something just short of 200k remains. I agree, for the US it may be on the lower end of the scale (given the ridiculous costs of housing and healthcare), but Europe or Asia? Way more than enough. > The issue is whether someone with the expertise to do this would benefit the company and their own career more d…

“At least in my experience it is definitely good for people to spend time directly with customers. I agree it may not be worthwile for a chip developer or a documentation writer to spend their full time on doing support - but a set amount of time, say four or eight hours a week? That's direct, unfiltered input from the customers where the documentation is either missing, unclear or buggy.”

I agree that direct experience with customers is good for many engineers. It is definitely not good for all engineers.

However there is a huge difference between professional customers and hobbyists.

You are now taking about a multi-tiered support organization.

You personally may be willing to spend 200 euros per hour for access to such an organization.

The question is, are there enough customers like you to justify millions of Euros in investment to build such an organization.

Starting from the hourly rate you personally think engineers should be paid gives exactly zero information about the demand, and therefore zero information about whether such a rate is meaningful.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 V3DV graphics driver achieves Vulkan 1.0 conformance

#105

Post by mondoshawan » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 6:57 AM UTC

rcarmo wrote: post #93

mondoshawan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ostensibly, yes. But consider that Eben Upton is an ex-Broadcom guy that helped build videocore and that they get everything at cost, and it looks like an incredibly powerful PR move for Broadcom with side benefits.

Well, I like to think the better of people. I don't know Eben, but he comes across (in what he wrote and I've seen him speak) as honest, unassuming and set on the mission (even if he is now running the commercial side). I'd give some minor portion of my anatomy to be part of something like the Raspberry Pi project and make some sort of difference (even if it might be seen as pandering to geeky tinkerers rather than h…

I typically do, too, but the Pi4 compute module and board are all too eerily similar to a product my team demoed to Eben at CES... right down to the MCO for the port layouts, form factor, and the high-density module interconnects.