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Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

nytimes.com

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Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#101

Post by sukilot »

taurath wrote: post #18
kazen44 wrote: post #5

The collapse of the fashion industry does not mean the clothing industry will collapse. People still need clothing obviously (cheap and of good quality preferably). Also, what do we consider the fashion industry exactly? Most long term clothing trends seem to be dictated by a couple of factors. Consisting of: - practicality. Jeans are good example of this. It's cheap and practical clothing that lasts a long time. - c…

(All comments on culture US centric) - This thinking is why the men’s section is 1/4 as large as the women’s in most stores. Culturally for men clothing is supposed to be above all practical. There are 5 genres of men’s clothes - business (pressed shirts, suits), casual, workout, skater, and comfort (hoodie). Contrast this with the women’s section. Women have an expectation to express themselves and their personality…

> Women have an expectation to express themselves and their personality

This is not where I expected to see the "personality" euphemism today.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#102

Post by Nasrudith »

seltzered_ wrote: post #36
kazen44 wrote: post #5

The collapse of the fashion industry does not mean the clothing industry will collapse. People still need clothing obviously (cheap and of good quality preferably). Also, what do we consider the fashion industry exactly? Most long term clothing trends seem to be dictated by a couple of factors. Consisting of: - practicality. Jeans are good example of this. It's cheap and practical clothing that lasts a long time. - c…

I would add environmental friendliness - more creativity in supply chains so more local materials used. Fashion will always exist and by itself shouldnt be considered wasteful - think deeply about other cultures relationship to it. Google around for Adam Minters book secondhand on how the rag industry is one of the largest.

I see an obsession with local but would they actually be more environmentally friendly? Specialized higher yield locales are more efficenct for land usage. Efficencies of scale and more optimal environments and container ships of scale as well.

Aside from that more stringent local environmental regulations are the only advantage I can see mattering.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#103

Post by aries1980 »

quickthrowman wrote: post #72
aries1980 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High-end fashion is not fast fashion. I wear high-end shoes daily, some that have been resoled twice, having a 10-year lifespan each. I feel I stand out from the crowd when I appear in my don't remember-when-I-bought Hackett blazer and Liberty shirts. If you are a man, whatever looked good on Steve McQueen in the 70s would still give you the look today.

> High-end shoes When you say this, do you mean Loakes, or Trickers/Church’s, or Edward Green/John Lobb? Just curious what you mean by high-end, US would be something like Allen Edmonds, Alden, (?? Not sure for top-tier US makers)

Yes, these.

I have Cheaney, Barker (I know it is not high-end by pricing, but I'm very satisfied with their quality over the years) Paul Smith, Attila Shoes, Vass Shoes and some workhorses that are worn enough not to care to walk 10-20km a day or if I am on holiday.

I'm always surprised when people say these are not comfortable as much as a trainer. I have to disagree.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#104

Post by Larrikin »

wirthjason wrote: post #90
Larrikin wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of thinking is why I tend to buy as close to a full years worth of clothing whenever I make a trip out to Tokyo. Even in Chicago relatively fashionable men's clothing shops are few and far between

What do you find so interesting and where do you shop? I like Uniqlo and Muji but now that Uniqlo is available (in-store) in Chicago theres no need to buy it in Japan. I’m not particularly into fashion but I like mainstream but trendy clothes. I think Japanese fashion is less about the clothes themselves than the acceptance to let people wear what they want and and not judging. I think it’s more acceptable to match d…

I actually rarely shop at Uniqlo unless I'm getting something like underwear or socks. The style is better than Old Navy but I wouldn't say that much better.

Usually I go through Harajuku (excluding Takeshita-dori), Shibuya, Omotesando, and Shinjuku and go through the various stores. Especially in Harajuku stores tend to close constantly and are replaced, but theres always something good to find.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#105

Post by sukilot »

chrisseaton wrote: post #58
the8472 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They knew that there was a continuous risk of a pandemic and prepared for one happening eventually . Just like we know there's a low risk of an entire server room going up in flames/water damage/lightning/getting hit by a truck driving into a building and that's why we have offsite backups even though we won't know when something is going to happen.

> They knew that there was a continuous risk of a pandemic But I think so did every country. Wasn't global pandemic at the top of almost every country's national security risk register? They knew it was likely, and they knew it was high-risk. I know for a fact it was at the top of the UK's public national security risk register. You're perpetuating a silly myth that major western countries didn't know this was coming…

Misinterprering by responding to half a sentence is rude.

>> and prepared for one happening eventually

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#106

Post by chrisseaton »

sukilot wrote: post #105
chrisseaton wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They knew that there was a continuous risk of a pandemic But I think so did every country. Wasn't global pandemic at the top of almost every country's national security risk register? They knew it was likely, and they knew it was high-risk. I know for a fact it was at the top of the UK's public national security risk register. You're perpetuating a silly myth that major western countries didn't know this was coming…

Misinterprering by responding to half a sentence is rude. >> and prepared for one happening eventually

Yes you're right - misinterprering by responding to part of a thread is rude.

Which is what you're doing - because the context of the thread is more specifically that anyone foresaw it - 'He couldn’t foresee that. No one did.' and the person I'm replied to that saying that they thought just some like Taiwan foresaw it.

Both are demonstrably false claims - you can look at public national security risk registers to confirm to yourself that many other countries foresaw it.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#107

Post by sukilot »

papito wrote: post #14
the8472 wrote: post #3

> Now a global pandemic had hit. He couldn’t foresee that. No one did. Some people did. Taiwan prepared after SARS. Of course nobody forsaw all possible consequences but it would be better to say that not everyone has the capacity to account for all possible tail risks.

"When the next pandemic occurs (and make no mistake, it will) and the federal government is unable to respond in a coordinated and effective fashion to protect the lives of US citizens and others, this decision by John Bolton and Donald Trump will be why." -Stephen Schwartz, on Twitter, May 2018 People knew. Also, Americans don't really have the habit of factoring in major events outside of their control into their l…

Alternatively, this was Trump's 9/11 -- the threat the President+Cabinet knew was coming and intentionally unprotected the nation from, in order to manufacture an excuse to retaliate against a tangentially connected enemy.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#108

Post by sukilot »

Scoundreller wrote: post #61
colmvp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more. High end fashion is woefully overpriced items that predominantly largely priced on their brand rather their functionality and material. While yes, you could make the same argument with technology, I can at least get a lot of value out of premium I've paid for Apple products like my seven year old MacBook Pro or five year old iPhone. And after working briefly in the fashion industry as a developer…

> I can at least get a lot of value out of premium I've paid for Apple products like my seven year old MacBook Pro or five year old iPhone. Yep, their Total Cost of Ownership can make them very appealing. I’ve made significant contributions towards my MacBook Air upgrades by selling the old one part-for-part.

Which parts of a Mac laptop to people buy by the part? I congratulate you for your thriftiness and ecological contribution, but surely this is an extremely niche practice.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#109

Post by stevenicr »

kurthr wrote: post #82
kazen44 wrote: post #5

The collapse of the fashion industry does not mean the clothing industry will collapse. People still need clothing obviously (cheap and of good quality preferably). Also, what do we consider the fashion industry exactly? Most long term clothing trends seem to be dictated by a couple of factors. Consisting of: - practicality. Jeans are good example of this. It's cheap and practical clothing that lasts a long time. - c…

Yes, but Jeans are part of the collapse now and considered formal for creatives with Levi's down 62% and doing layoffs. I thought "formality" was bizarre as well, but apparently their target demo don't consider the older skinny-jeans, and the new high-waisted mom-jeans to be as comfortable as Lulus... who'd have thunk it? https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/07/28/jeans-sal... I suspect that it's a long term…

After buying mostly levi's jeans for 30 years I started noticing huge differences in quality / durability.. upon inspecting the waist seams I noticed the 'made in pakistan / mexico' and other labels of origin. The same style/numbers from different years had different fabric thicknesses and were made in various places, and they did not last as long. So I started to question this "American brand".

Then they started going all anti-gun / SJW / spending money to reduce gun rights.

I have not bought a pair in a long time, won't buy any of that brand for anyone else, and anytime someone I know is shopping for or discussing jeans I mention my distaste for the brand and those who would support them.

Seeing them go down sparks joy. I'd rather wear a leisure suit made by snuggies than hand them cash. Seems I'm not the only one.

*edit to manual correct seems to seams

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#110

Post by rumanator »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #62
okamiueru wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, and you even bringing it up, apple products is to some degree the fashion equivalent in tech. I recently had to buy a MacOs compatible hardware for the first time in years, and I had really no idea how large the difference has become. Apple products truly are "way of life", more than anything tangible. And when choosing to upgrade components, I really couldn't believe it. It was more than twice the compar…

> In what other industry are people willing to pay at least more than twice, for the same hardware? The whole premise is incorrect, so the conclusions are incorrect. The hardware is not the same, and even if it was, clearly the software makes a difference to the user. The whole Apple fashion status trope is tired and has never been true. The amortized cost of an Apple device in my 15 year + experience with them has a…

> The whole premise is incorrect, so the conclusions are incorrect. The hardware is not the same, and even if it was, clearly the software makes a difference to the user.

Speaking as someone who has spent a fair share of money on Apple products, It really doesn't. Apple is in the business of selling Veblen goods, and unless you are in a niche domain that requires niche software, Apple does not offer anything that makes a significant difference when compared with what ships with other platforms.

This is specially true nowadays as the bulk of the work done by anyone is performed through a browser. I mean, Finder works but no one spends $2k on a laptop just because you can open files like a champ.

In order to understand the appeal of Apple's product line, all you need to check is the rationale of companies who try to entice potential hires by advertising how they make available flashy Apple hardware to their employees.

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