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Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

wsj.com

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Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#101

Post by goatinaboat »

komali2 wrote: post #5
manfredo wrote: post #3

Never owned a Remington myself, but they've not been held in high regard for a while. Some say it was linked to it's acquisition by Cerberus Capital. Ultimately, though, it seem alike the company was asking customers to pay premium prices for average guns. What justifies spending 800 - 1200 dollars on a Remington 700 as compared to $500 on a Ruger American?

Sounds eerily similar to the Harley situation. I had the displeasure of renting a Harley something - street 500 or something along those lines - just to see what all the fuss was about. Seems much ado about nothing, why would I drop 8,000$ on a slab of iron, not even made in the USA anymore, when I could get twice the bike at half the weight for the same price from Suzuki?

Sounds eerily similar to the Harley situation. I had the displeasure of renting a Harley something - street 500 or something along those lines - just to see what all the fuss was about. Seems much ado about nothing, why would I drop 8,000$ on a slab of iron, not even made in the USA anymore, when I could get twice the bike at half the weight for the same price from Suzuki?

Even the Hell's Angels regret choosing Harley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Barger#2000s

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#102

Post by goatinaboat »

lebaux wrote: post #32
komali2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds eerily similar to the Harley situation. I had the displeasure of renting a Harley something - street 500 or something along those lines - just to see what all the fuss was about. Seems much ado about nothing, why would I drop 8,000$ on a slab of iron, not even made in the USA anymore, when I could get twice the bike at half the weight for the same price from Suzuki?

Plenty of factors are helping humans to move on from brand worship: 1. More information. The iconning brands like Harley or Marlboro are from pre-internet era and heavily relied on freedom image. It was just accepted as an expression of culture. This doesn't really work when wages are not rising with GDP. In other words, people care less about brand and more about utility and price. 2. Better and more accessible comp…

More information. The iconning brands like Harley or Marlboro are from pre-internet era and heavily relied on freedom image. It was just accepted as an expression of culture. This doesn't really work when wages are not rising with GDP. In other words, people care less about brand and more about utility and price.

It's also a factor that so many companies nowadays see their brand built over decades by previous generations of workers and management as just another resource to suck dry. Shareholders are blinded to this but they ought to be angry, that is the long-term value of their investment being burnt to paper over management's lack of strategic vision.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#103

Post by blaser-waffle »

walrus01 wrote: post #68
manfredo wrote: post #3

Never owned a Remington myself, but they've not been held in high regard for a while. Some say it was linked to it's acquisition by Cerberus Capital. Ultimately, though, it seem alike the company was asking customers to pay premium prices for average guns. What justifies spending 800 - 1200 dollars on a Remington 700 as compared to $500 on a Ruger American?

Among people I know who track modern firearm technology I don't know a single person who would even contemplate buying a Remington. They are to modern guns what a Harley Davidson is to a modern motorcycle. People who care about good tech and value are buying things like CZs, aero precision and Anderson AR10/15 lowers and uppers, etc. Even the canik pistol from turkey is remarkably good quality. Savage offers good val…

> buying things like CZs, aero precision and Anderson AR10/15 lowers and uppers, etc. Even the canik pistol from turkey is remarkably good quality

A lot of the CZ stuff is made in Turkey, such as their over-under shotguns. I own a couple CZ rifles and they're decent.

Never fired any Savage products but heard good things.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#104

Post by rascul »

jacobush wrote: post #78
AmVess wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are buying bolt actions like there's no tomorrow. Just not from Remington. Tikka, for instance, has been a sleepy brand here in the US for a while, but their popularity has exploded in recent years. Remington's owners have stripped away many of the skilled gunsmiths they used to have. A new Remington is not a very well machined firearm, and enthusiasts have found this out and no longer buy their products.

Even the concept of gunsmiths making serial production guns is weird to me. Gunsmiths should do repair, factories with robots and CNC machines should make high precision gear.

Gunsmiths design and create the guns. Much of the manufacturing is done by machine.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#105

Post by blaser-waffle »

yaur wrote: post #81
progre wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main model or the Express?

Express. The whole idea is to not drag an expensive gun through a brier patch.

Maverick 88 is cheaper and doesn't have Remington stigma. Fit and finish isn't amazing but I haven't heard anything bad about Mossberg triggers themselves. Mossberg has plastic safeties and plastic trigger guards, though :/

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#106

Post by snarf21 »

HelloNurse wrote: post #90

Most comment seem to agree that Remington stopped making quality guns, with the obvious effects on profitability. When did this happen? Is it a cause or an effect of the mentioned private equity funds? Is it an Intel-like bad period on the product design and R&D front?

It is private equity. I have a bunch of Thompson Center guns. I love them and found the quality to be quite good. They were then rolled up into Smith & Wessen in 2010. They cut most of their line and the quality is now shite. I wouldn't buy one anymore. So sad.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#107

Post by blaser-waffle »

HelloNurse wrote: post #90

Most comment seem to agree that Remington stopped making quality guns, with the obvious effects on profitability. When did this happen? Is it a cause or an effect of the mentioned private equity funds? Is it an Intel-like bad period on the product design and R&D front?

Private equity, mostly. That's shorthand for corporate raiders taking over, cutting QA and other costs, trying to diversify the product lines, and banking hard on the brand to keep things going. If it worked, great, keep making that money, and if not then milk the sucker and run -- which is what we're seeing.

Problem is that modern manufacturing has gotten cheaper and more effective, and offerings from China, Turkey, Japan, and other brands in the US are only getting better, while Remington stayed the same (or even declined). I think the trigger thing was more hype than reality, but why risk getting a bad one when there are so many good choices on the market that are at or below the Remington price?

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#108

Post by blaser-waffle »

elkos wrote: post #95
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a town in Georgia where owning a gun is mandatory.

What happens if you are a foreigner and you choose to live there?

If you've got a valid green card you can own a gun, no question. Pretty sure you can own a gun on working visas as well, though there is the logistical issue of if/when the visa expires -- chances are you're not taking it with you.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#109

Post by blaser-waffle »

qserasera wrote: post #45

Foreign weapons manufactueres declare victory once again. Russia seems to be in a military boom.

Plenty of other domestic brands to buy, Savage or Mossberg or Henry or whatever.

These are bolt action deer-getters, not Pantsir S1's. And outside of a handful of countries, no one is buying Pantsirs except Algeria (and maybe Iraq, which means half of them are going to end up as NATO playthings).

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#110

Post by blaser-waffle »

zrobotics wrote: post #17
axegon_ wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, as far as firearms are concerned. But I do own several other Remington products and the quality is astonishing. One of which is a pocket knife and it's staggering how well made it is. And how outrageously sharp it is for that matter. 3 days before the pandemic started I nearly cut off my left index finger with it...

I will say, those are licensed products. They may be good, but that's luck of the draw, they have just sold the brand name off to some 3rd party to make a specific product. For what it's worth, I bought a remington-branded bone saw ~3 years back, and it was absolute garbage. It failed to even finish field dressing an elk, and all that was required was one cut of a few inches. It's a shame, their older products were r…

> American brands have been acquired (Winchester->FN)

FN still makes good stuff, though.

They're also solvent -- no pump-and-dump investing games here -- and supply lots of gear to global militarizes, including the US military, e.g. the SAW is the FN Minimi, which is made under license in South Carolina.

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