Dust in the Light • Hacker News Board

Re: Dust in the Light

#101

Post by scarface74 » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 10:49 PM UTC

free_rms wrote: post #69

disease wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic parity would go a long way towards solving these problems, I don't think they can happen before white racial resentment is solved. It's interesting that so many working class whites are so willing to vote against their own economic self interest - particular where the possibility of raising the levels of working class blacks is concerned. Last Place Aversion is a very real thing it seems.

Do you think any of those people actually think to themselves "I'm going to vote against my economic self-interest because of Last Place Aversion"?

Maybe they don’t say that but how many farmers who voted for Trump because of his platform about deporting “illegals” are now complaining that they can’t find anyone to work their farms because Americans won’t work the fields at any price?

And they are going to vote for him again?

How many “good Christians” support him even after the recording came out about him “grabbing a woman by the p%%%%”?

Re: Dust in the Light

#102

Post by gigatexal » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 10:57 PM UTC

Ben’s writing on this is so powerful. It should be at the top of HN with a million points. I’m glad to be a supporter of his. As a subscriber I got to hear him read this and it was moving.

Re: Dust in the Light

#103

Post by pcbro141 » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 10:58 PM UTC

dmode wrote: post #63

disease wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic parity would go a long way towards solving these problems, I don't think they can happen before white racial resentment is solved. It's interesting that so many working class whites are so willing to vote against their own economic self interest - particular where the possibility of raising the levels of working class blacks is concerned. Last Place Aversion is a very real thing it seems.

Can you expand a little bit on the white racial resentment and what you mean by it ?

A non-trivial percentage of White Americans feel like African-Americans have already been made whole for the hundreds of years of wrongdoing done to them, and some even feel like Black people actually have more privilege/opportunity than White people in America and that America is now "reverse racist". Anecdotally, they tend to be poorer Whites who feel aggrieved that they haven't gotten the wealth they feel they deserve, but not always.

Basically the type of people who think saying "Black Lives Matter" means you hate White people.

Re: Dust in the Light

#104

Post by metalliqaz » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 11:00 PM UTC

Fartag wrote: post #88

__s wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's referring to white trash voting republican against their self interest https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/31/trump-whi... Or, with humor, from Dave Chappelle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH-wCe5oAv8

[flagged]

heh, something set this guy off.... I wonder what it could be?

Re: Dust in the Light

#105

Post by metalliqaz » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 11:03 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #99

free_rms wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they just vote for the party that doesn't call them white trash?

I am definitely not White - but when Democrats say that the “white trash” only care about guns and the Bible, why wouldn’t they vote for Trump? You never win votes by insulting the people that you want to vote for you.

Democrats don't say that.

Unless you grant that Republicans say that "blacks are lazy and violent" because right-leaning Internet randos say it online.

The presumptive Democrat candidate put out words of unity, compared to Trump's verbal shit splatter.

Re: Dust in the Light

#106

Post by gonehome » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 11:03 PM UTC

brokencode wrote: post #95

zchrykng wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain why I, a tax paying citizen who isn't a racist and hasn't discriminated against anyone, should have my money taken away at the point of a gun to fund all these programs. Also all the government spending for COVID was also misguided. Not the federal government's role and our debt is at dangerous levels.

Because you are the beneficiary of hundreds of years of policies and systemic racism that has benefited you at the cost of your fellow man. Imagine your parents stole a fortune from your neighbor and passed it on to you when they died. Does that money belong to you, or your neighbor/their children? I think the answer is common sense. The fact that you weren’t the one who originally stole the money is irrelevant.

What about if you go back three or four generations? five or six?

I'm conflicted on this issue, I really understand the need and can persuade myself either way but it's not obvious.

Being black in America may be a special case that's worth trying to correct directly with something like reparations, but I'm not convinced you can right all historical wrongs by this logic generally. A lot of groups have faced terrible persecution throughout history.

American Indians, Jews, etc.

Re: Dust in the Light

#107

Post by free_rms » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 11:08 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #101

free_rms wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think any of those people actually think to themselves "I'm going to vote against my economic self-interest because of Last Place Aversion"?

Maybe they don’t say that but how many farmers who voted for Trump because of his platform about deporting “illegals” are now complaining that they can’t find anyone to work their farms because Americans won’t work the fields at any price? And they are going to vote for him again? How many “good Christians” support him even after the recording came out about him “grabbing a woman by the p%%%%”?

Farmers are rich, though, and they're doing fine for labor. The trade war hit them worse by tanking pork prices.

For working class people, neoliberal economics have done nothing for them. Plants in town have closed and they don't see any investment in their community from their tax dollars.

If neither party is going to look out for you, it's perfectly rational to sigh and pick the one that at least doesn't villainize you as some sort of oppressor.

If the democrats want to win back the white union vote, they need to actually offer something besides "vote for us or you're racist". I guess there's always 2024.

Re: Dust in the Light

#108

Post by scarface74 » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 11:12 PM UTC

metalliqaz wrote: post #105

scarface74 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am definitely not White - but when Democrats say that the “white trash” only care about guns and the Bible, why wouldn’t they vote for Trump? You never win votes by insulting the people that you want to vote for you.

Democrats don't say that. Unless you grant that Republicans say that "blacks are lazy and violent" because right-leaning Internet randos say it online. The presumptive Democrat candidate put out words of unity, compared to Trump's verbal shit splatter.

Do you consider Obama an "internet Rando?"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/14/barackobama.us...

Obama was caught in an uncharacteristic moment of loose language. Referring to working-class voters in old industrial towns decimated by job losses, the presidential hopeful said: "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Re: Dust in the Light

#109

Post by jjtheblunt » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 11:24 PM UTC

dmode wrote: post #29

I love Ben Thompson's writing and I like how he accurately connects the history of institutional racism to the events of today. I have seen a few articles of this kind, and it seems like in today's America vast majority of people (except a few Trump holdouts) have acknowledged that the historical arc of slavery to segregation to white flight to real estate discrimination has led to where we are. However, what I don't…

Would that imply taxation (to fund such) on recent immigrants from Asia and Europe and Africa, whose ancestors were not involved in the horrors of slavery?

Re: Dust in the Light

#110

Post by sharkjacobs » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 11:37 PM UTC

jjtheblunt wrote: post #109

dmode wrote: post #29

I love Ben Thompson's writing and I like how he accurately connects the history of institutional racism to the events of today. I have seen a few articles of this kind, and it seems like in today's America vast majority of people (except a few Trump holdouts) have acknowledged that the historical arc of slavery to segregation to white flight to real estate discrimination has led to where we are. However, what I don't…

Would that imply taxation (to fund such) on recent immigrants from Asia and Europe and Africa, whose ancestors were not involved in the horrors of slavery?

It's not about personal responsibility, or ancestral responsibility. Immigrants in the United States chose to become part of that country, with all the benefits, privileges, and responsibilities that entails.

edit: To make an analogy, if you move into a condo, and its roof needs to be replaced the next year, it's not your fault that the building's reserve fund can't cover the cost, but that doesn't exempt you from paying the special levy.