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Dust in the Light

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Re: Dust in the Light

#61

Post by camgunz »

dang wrote: post #39
vincentmarle wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, it’s impossible to have adult conversations about anything other than tech on HN.

By posting that, you make it more so, and actually it is far from true. We should do things to help develop the discourse here, not kick it. The container is fragile. I believe that when the community gets this sort of inaccurate reflection of itself, it encourages a "why bother" sentiment and, downstream from that, a "fuck you" sentiment, since if no one is communicating anyhow, what else does it make sense to say?…

I strongly agree with this. We need to discuss important issues in good faith. It's hard work--assuming the best of each other, making an earnest effort to be open minded and well-informed, accepting when we're wrong and giving credit and thanks when we're educated--but it's so, so critical. And I agree HN beats the odds when it comes to adult conversations, and considering what it's up against (tech people aren't famous for their soft skills and lack of ego), I'm actually rather proud of us.

Re: Dust in the Light

#62

Post by nogenerix »

in_cahoots wrote: post #56
nogenerix wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds racist to say that black communities need access to white communities in order to create positive outcomes. Why can't the black communities stand on their own?

I’m not going to spell it out for you because I don’t think you are interested in learning. If you really want to know the answer to this question, then go to a school in a poor black community. Visit their libraries, hospitals, and grocery stores. Then do the same for nearby white communities. Go do the work and educate yourself. Separate but equal is not equal.

What is it that makes the black schools suck? What if there was a separate Japanese school, would it suck compared to white schools?

Re: Dust in the Light

#63

Post by dmode »

disease wrote: post #53
dmode wrote: post #29

I love Ben Thompson's writing and I like how he accurately connects the history of institutional racism to the events of today. I have seen a few articles of this kind, and it seems like in today's America vast majority of people (except a few Trump holdouts) have acknowledged that the historical arc of slavery to segregation to white flight to real estate discrimination has led to where we are. However, what I don't…

Economic parity would go a long way towards solving these problems, I don't think they can happen before white racial resentment is solved. It's interesting that so many working class whites are so willing to vote against their own economic self interest - particular where the possibility of raising the levels of working class blacks is concerned. Last Place Aversion is a very real thing it seems.

Can you expand a little bit on the white racial resentment and what you mean by it ?

Re: Dust in the Light

#64

Post by zchrykng »

dmode wrote: post #29

I love Ben Thompson's writing and I like how he accurately connects the history of institutional racism to the events of today. I have seen a few articles of this kind, and it seems like in today's America vast majority of people (except a few Trump holdouts) have acknowledged that the historical arc of slavery to segregation to white flight to real estate discrimination has led to where we are. However, what I don't…

Please explain why I, a tax paying citizen who isn't a racist and hasn't discriminated against anyone, should have my money taken away at the point of a gun to fund all these programs. Also all the government spending for COVID was also misguided. Not the federal government's role and our debt is at dangerous levels.

Re: Dust in the Light

#65

Post by in_cahoots »

nogenerix wrote: post #62
in_cahoots wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not going to spell it out for you because I don’t think you are interested in learning. If you really want to know the answer to this question, then go to a school in a poor black community. Visit their libraries, hospitals, and grocery stores. Then do the same for nearby white communities. Go do the work and educate yourself. Separate but equal is not equal.

What is it that makes the black schools suck? What if there was a separate Japanese school, would it suck compared to white schools?

From your comments it’s clear that you’re a garden-variety racist. You’re not worth my time.

Re: Dust in the Light

#66

Post by huac »

zchrykng wrote: post #64
dmode wrote: post #29

I love Ben Thompson's writing and I like how he accurately connects the history of institutional racism to the events of today. I have seen a few articles of this kind, and it seems like in today's America vast majority of people (except a few Trump holdouts) have acknowledged that the historical arc of slavery to segregation to white flight to real estate discrimination has led to where we are. However, what I don't…

Please explain why I, a tax paying citizen who isn't a racist and hasn't discriminated against anyone, should have my money taken away at the point of a gun to fund all these programs. Also all the government spending for COVID was also misguided. Not the federal government's role and our debt is at dangerous levels.

> Also all the government spending for COVID was also misguided. Not the federal government's role and our debt is at dangerous levels.

What is the role of the federal government, if not "to provide basic services to its citizens in times of extraordinary need"? In the face of a generational pandemic, from which nobody is unaffected, why should the government throw up its hands and not spend?

I recognize that that is something of an ideological statement, and we're not going to get anywhere with non-falsifiable statements. So let's think of it a different way: you say that "debt is at dangerous levels" - how would you quantify danger? US Treasury yields, how we "finance" debt, are at all-time lows - which means that private buyers are willing to pay higher prices than ever for the safety of Treasury bonds. There is absolutely no quantitative evidence that more US government debt is dangerous; in fact, the evidence points squarely towards investors demanding more debt issuance, and thus government spending, given the extremely low rates.

Re: Dust in the Light

#67

Post by DoreenMichele »

f1refly wrote: post #60
DoreenMichele wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they tried that and white assholes burned "Black Wall Street" to the ground. Then (whites in power) promptly began changing building codes to prevent them from rebuilding on the theory that it burnt to the ground not because crazy racist assholes torched it but because it was a slum not built to adequate standards.

Sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory to me

Google "Black Wall street massacre." There are plenty of articles.

We probably don't hear more about it because it makes white people uncomfortable.

Re: Dust in the Light

#68

Post by dang »

luckylion wrote: post #54
dang wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By posting that, you make it more so, and actually it is far from true. We should do things to help develop the discourse here, not kick it. The container is fragile. I believe that when the community gets this sort of inaccurate reflection of itself, it encourages a "why bother" sentiment and, downstream from that, a "fuck you" sentiment, since if no one is communicating anyhow, what else does it make sense to say?…

> I believe when the community gets this sort of deeply inaccurate reflection of itself, it encourages a "why bother" sentiment Tbh though, on some topics, "why bother" is accurate. You can write a comment that is controversial, but it will be heavily downvoted and flagged, so indeed: why bother? The Overton Window on HN isn't as large as it appears, but it's generally accepted that you can say what you want as long…

I didn't mean "why bother saying anything". I meant "why bother treating other people well". If I have the image that no one else is restraining themselves or putting effort into being thoughtful and respectful, then why should I bother making the effort? That's what leads to "fuck you".

The thing is, that image of HN is actually wrong. We all need to become aware of how strong the biases are that lead to it, lest we end up destroying the very thing we wish for.

Re: Dust in the Light

#69

Post by free_rms »

disease wrote: post #53
dmode wrote: post #29

I love Ben Thompson's writing and I like how he accurately connects the history of institutional racism to the events of today. I have seen a few articles of this kind, and it seems like in today's America vast majority of people (except a few Trump holdouts) have acknowledged that the historical arc of slavery to segregation to white flight to real estate discrimination has led to where we are. However, what I don't…

Economic parity would go a long way towards solving these problems, I don't think they can happen before white racial resentment is solved. It's interesting that so many working class whites are so willing to vote against their own economic self interest - particular where the possibility of raising the levels of working class blacks is concerned. Last Place Aversion is a very real thing it seems.

Do you think any of those people actually think to themselves "I'm going to vote against my economic self-interest because of Last Place Aversion"?

Re: Dust in the Light

#70

Post by foobiekr »

ses1984 wrote: post #8
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #3

> And no matter what upheaval lies ahead, I am certain that the light that illuminates that dust so brightly can never be put away. There are no more gatekeepers, oftentimes for worse, but also for better. I am not so sanguine. People in power all over the world are seeing the threat to their power from the Internet and working to curtail it. China is probably the most ahead, but I am sure everyone else is hard at wo…

I don't think China is ahead of the west, they just take a slightly different approach. People have a really short memory, they already forgot about Snowden, prism, Room 641A: that shit never stopped. Please don't get me wrong I'm not trying to equate China and the west, China is a lot worse but strictly looking at the reaction of those in power to the internet... People in power in the west are definitely reacting s…

None of the things you listed actually involves suppressing content. The parent author is concerned about suppressing the internet, not spying on it.

Both can be bad, but they're not the same thing. China leads on both.

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