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Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

nytimes.com

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Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#101

Post by Silhouette »

jeremyjh wrote: post #82
cs702 wrote: post #80

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership ? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?

Licensing is not the same as purchasing. I don’t think banning the concept of licensing would be helpful.

I don’t think banning the concept of licensing would be helpful.

Other things being equal, I would agree. However, if market forces push us into a choice between ordinary people being able to own things and use them freely against ordinary people being forced to pay rent on everything forever and use things only as some higher power dictates, it's not going to take long to make that choice. This is the choice that we are heading towards with the increasing use of software and, in particular, the repurposing of laws originally intended to prevent exploiting the work of others to create software so that they constrain the ordinary use of a product by the person who bought it.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#102

Post by listsfrin »

simion314 wrote: post #75
listsfrin wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They block competent repairman? Or they ask money for competent repair?

Apple does not allow the companies that make chips from their laptops to also sell those chips for people that want to repair this laptops. So this repair people need to "illegally" obtain the chips from someone at the factory. Apple also threatens you with lawyers if you host or share schematics for repairing products. The new repair partner program from Apple is also a joke and created to appear they are trying to…

Maybe it's a joke to you. For me it's fine. People pay real money in order to have Apple quality. If all you need is "a computer", go ahead, there's plenty around any corner.

Any merchant of quality products would suffer greatly if everyone is allowed to sell stuff in its name.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#103

Post by fastball »

tremon wrote: post #74
fastball wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait so you think you should not be allowed to buy "unrepairable" devices?

Of course you should be allowed that. It's just that no one will be allowed to sell you one.

So... no, you wouldn't be able to.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#104

Post by ClumsyPilot »

jeremyjh wrote: post #82
cs702 wrote: post #80

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership ? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?

Licensing is not the same as purchasing. I don’t think banning the concept of licensing would be helpful.

Withing the next 10-15 years 95% of household appliances and furniture will have a chip in them, to enable some type of IoT functionality.

All of them will be licensed, almost abolishing private ownership. If we idly accept licensing of everything, we will enjoy what will be basically serfdom.

People that were writing these laws never imagined they would prevent you from repairing a cat-feeder or a lighting system. They were intended for another purpose entirely. Maybe it's time we stopped misusing those laws and created a separate body of law for this specifically.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#105

Post by jaybeeayyy »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #84
Shivetya wrote: post #71

Depending on how this is handled it could backfire and we end up with more pollution as people discard used parts. For some items, like adding easily swap of batteries may open the devices to easier contamination. However if right to repair is contained to authorized repair centers; which is currently how warranties are preserved in many countries; then it might still pass provided someone with the right tools can do…

There is a world of difference between technical obstacles and deliberate ones. Apple structures their contracts so that the manufacturer is not allowed to sell components to any third parties, making repair impossible. You could be forced to throw out a five grand laptop because you are not allowed to buy a $5 chip, that can be easily replaced. Watch this testimony. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLIW7mQ8CI4

I was looking for a video of mah bout Louis! He's so informative and I love watching his streams...I had no idea what right to repair was until I saw him talk about it.

It's insane how much power we let companies like apple have over products we purchase from them.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#106

Post by rrmoelker »

rndgermandude wrote: post #19
firbrook wrote: post #6

I hope this doesn't result in a GDPR-like effect, but for phones instead of websites: "We're sorry, but iPhones aren't available in your region" followed by a redirect to google.com

I have seen very few sites actually doing this. The only one I remember is Chicago Tribune, and I cannot remember any site where I didn't just shrug and move on. Also, Apple in particular cannot really afford to leave the EU. About 23% of their profits were generated in the EU in 2019. Other big names are in essentially the same boat.

I come across one site every two weeks or so. Luckily on the Reddit forums people usually copy or quote the article.

It's a bit of a nuisance. But overall, I feel this GDPR is doing more good than harm.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#107

Post by globile »

It is not only manufacturers. Cellphone Network Operators are part of the problem.

Our B2B customers are in many cases Network operators.

Occasionally they request tens of thousands of unlock/repair requests for phones from competing networks for which they have won an enterprise tender.

Love/Hate relationship.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#108

Post by Silhouette »

Shivetya wrote: post #71

Depending on how this is handled it could backfire and we end up with more pollution as people discard used parts. For some items, like adding easily swap of batteries may open the devices to easier contamination. However if right to repair is contained to authorized repair centers; which is currently how warranties are preserved in many countries; then it might still pass provided someone with the right tools can do…

There are several arguments in that comment that are fair and reasonable, sometimes. However, they tend to be the exception rather than the rule. We should not allow owner-hostile vendors to hide behind them as excuses for measures like lock-in mechanisms and planned obsolescence that are not necessary.

If an item really does have the potential to become harmful in some way if it is not properly used and maintained, the burden should be on the vendor and/or manufacturer to demonstrate that in order to justify any restrictions on its use or maintenance. Such demonstrations and restrictions should be subject to regulatory oversight by consumer protection agencies or similar bodies. If they are found to be unjustified by a competent authority then the burden should be on the vendor and/or manufacturer to either make things right or compensate those who bought the product (including reasonable consequential losses, not just the purchase price).

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#109

Post by diablo1 »

I bought a few dumbphones from Amazon because I am scared that smartphones will be so pervasive and that dumbphones will be slowly phased out and you will be unable to buy them anymore. Smartphones are difficult to repair because the circuitry is hermetically sealed and you need specialist tools to open them up and tinker. Dumbphones, not so much. The parts are accessible and can be swapped out with working parts easily.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#110

Post by cs702 »

jeremyjh wrote: post #82
cs702 wrote: post #80

When you buy a physical object, such as a home, a car, a shirt, or a smartphone, shouldn't you be be able to repair it, modify it however you want, use it for different purposes, loan it to friends, sell it to others, and so on -- you know, all the rights and benefits associated with the concept of private ownership ? And when you buy a software object, shouldn't you have the same rights and benefits?

Licensing is not the same as purchasing. I don’t think banning the concept of licensing would be helpful.

I didn't even mention the words "licensing" and "banning."

If a house, a car, a shirt, or a phone is offered to you for sale, and you buy it, then you should own it.

FWIW, I agree with you. Please don't attack a straw-man!

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