What happens when your career becomes your whole identity • Hacker News Board

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#101

Post by thrwaway69 » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:13 PM UTC

codingdave wrote: post #79

alexpetralia wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate, what is to come of deliberating on existential meaning at great length? Do you think you'll find an answer, rationally speaking (that is, using the tools of reason and logic)? Notably, Godel's incompleteness theorems suggest these tools may be insufficient. More specifically, if you try to rationally "justify" what you ought to be doing, you will always be able to - legitimately! - impugn it…

Have you not met anyone who went through a period of questioned assumptions, got to their answers, and consciously chose a path that fulfills them? Those seem to be the happiest people around. Many people who have gone through this process do end up at the answers of family, or helping others. I'm unclear from your writing if you accept those answers as valid, or if you are being dismissive of those answers and assum…

I agree with your initial assessment but for second, It depends. I have gone through that or so I believe. And yet I don't see point in living in current circumstances.

The irrational or rational mind compares the experiences of others as a measure for their own happiness when they feel that something is not right.

Going by what feels right works as long as there is positive reinforcement otherwise it will have a negative side effect on life. Some people aren't for example aware of choices others have made in their life because they don't focus on them, those choices lead them to happiness or better standing ground but for others, those choices that aren't in their control leading to a very negative event may disproportionately affect them and questioning.

You can't control for your initial years or childhood and That I think has the biggest impact on whether you will come across solving it.

It feels right to cry out in misery but rational or irrational mind would think it might be pointless if for however long you cry, no one comes to help or nothing improves.

I don't know what is considered rational or irrational thing to do given anything may seem rational for someone in specific circumstances and irrational for bystander. Is there such a thing as objective rationality that can be verified?

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#102

Post by asveikau » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:15 PM UTC

tuckerconnelly wrote: post #18

quotemstr wrote: post #13

This anti-work ethic you see crop up once in a while is delusion. Success comes from perseverance, not idleness or detachment. A few days ago, there was an article from some CEO claiming that you don't need to work hard to succeed. Today, we have an article from HBR cautioning about becoming too invested in one's work. This sentiment is dangerous. It's harmful to teach young people to be cynical, indifferent, and laz…

It may be an effect of the economic bubble we're in. It's an ethos that doesn't survive a crash :)

Or maybe people are working harder each year for decreasing post-inflation-adjusted wages and decreasing benefits, wages are not keeping up with costs in many industries and places, they are stressed out and asking why they put themselves through this.

Or perhaps, a scenario that will be familiar to many in tech and I know I have personally witnessed, that some corporate cultures are so completely full of narcissism, and they sweep people up until they think this sort of beast is normal, having a toll on mental health.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#103

Post by 2sk21 » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:15 PM UTC

samstave wrote: post #34

marnett wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so?

For me, as I got older, lost passion for what I had been doing for 20 years - and being on the old end of the ageism-specrum-stick... it is hard to deal with. I have left 'Silicon Valley Tech' -- as I am no longer interested in any of the things I did before and seek positions which are more fulfilling in other industries and pay about 25% of what I used to make...

I have a PhD in machine learning and have had a fairly productive career now spanning almost thirty years. Even a few years ago, I used think that I would keep at it indefinitely. Lately however, I'm finding that the field simply just does not interest me as much as it used to. Contributing to this is the knowledge that I am financially independent - I just don't need to work at this point. I'm planning to quit later this year and spend more time on hobbies and studying cognitive science on my own.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#104

Post by Infinitesimus » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:18 PM UTC

mmsimanga wrote: post #91

We have a saying back home that goes, "umuntu ngumuntu ngabantu" which literally translates to a person is a person because of other people. So in effect in Africa we care more about people than our jobs. Trouble is when your job is managing national electricity company it isn't a good approach because we tend to put our relationships above our jobs. Result is patchy electricity supply. It is one (just one not the ma…

Ha I resonate with this so much. From from the motherland to the US and it's been interesting because I love some of the freedom of self expression the individualism gives me but often times have to be snapped back from the east coast rush-everywhere life I've lived recently and remember that it's okay to hang out till late because the time spent connecting with others meaningfully is hardly ever a waste.

Indeed, people, relationships and our connections make us who we are

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#105

Post by grecy » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:19 PM UTC

nugget wrote: post #7

In my experience extreme workaholism can often be a way to avoid or defer major life decisions that someone doesn't want to make or even consciously recognize. High status careers are often structured, full of positive feedback loops, and well compensated, all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date, even (perha…

> all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date

I've quit my Software Engineering job twice now to spend years of my life doing whatever I want. First time I spent two years driving from Alaska to Argentina [1] and second time I just spent three years driving right around Africa [2]. Both times I had no job, no boss, no timeline and I did whatever I wanted every single day. Hiking, camping, taking photos, cooking food, learning a new language, writing when I wanted to, etc. etc. I had ultimate freedom, living off my savings.

Without a doubt, the "freedom" life is much harder for me than the "desk job" life for exactly the reasons you listed above. After about six months for me I started to really, really think about the meaning of my life, what direction I want my life to take and a ton of other things that simply don't enter my mind when my life is on autopilot (i.e. going to work every day).

Going to work everyday is easy, because it means you don't have to decide the direction of your own life if you don't want to.

[1] http://theroadchoseme.com/expedition-overview

[2] http://theroadchoseme.com/africa-expedition-overview. & http://instagram.com/theroadchoseme

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#106

Post by fishingisfun » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:21 PM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #13

This anti-work ethic you see crop up once in a while is delusion. Success comes from perseverance, not idleness or detachment. A few days ago, there was an article from some CEO claiming that you don't need to work hard to succeed. Today, we have an article from HBR cautioning about becoming too invested in one's work. This sentiment is dangerous. It's harmful to teach young people to be cynical, indifferent, and laz…

I agree but many jobs today are seriously mundane and dont really allow for much creativity. I think it makes sense to put effort into other aspects of life and crank up your work hours towards something that'll have a lasting impact.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#107

Post by grecy » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:21 PM UTC

mmsimanga wrote: post #91

We have a saying back home that goes, "umuntu ngumuntu ngabantu" which literally translates to a person is a person because of other people. So in effect in Africa we care more about people than our jobs. Trouble is when your job is managing national electricity company it isn't a good approach because we tend to put our relationships above our jobs. Result is patchy electricity supply. It is one (just one not the ma…

Do you mind sharing from what country you come from and what language that is in please?

I just spent three years driving around Africa, and I usually say "People treat people like people" to describe everything that is amazing about the people there. It sounds awkward, but it's the best way I have to describe what you're talking about. I'd love to quote your saying, if you don't mind!

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#108

Post by thrwaway69 » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:27 PM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #78

alexpetralia wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate, what is to come of deliberating on existential meaning at great length? Do you think you'll find an answer, rationally speaking (that is, using the tools of reason and logic)? Notably, Godel's incompleteness theorems suggest these tools may be insufficient. More specifically, if you try to rationally "justify" what you ought to be doing, you will always be able to - legitimately! - impugn it…

In my own attempts at reasoning this stuff the only meaning that I've been able to find is that life is meaningless. Therefore the only thing to do is be comfortable with that null of an answer, and live as you see fit.

same but that leads to another locked door for me. Statistically speaking, the quality of life I want to get (expectations reduced by 5x for being extra cautious) still has a chance of 2-5% given my background of ever being real. Why should I place my bet on such a shitty investment package which most people get for nothing? Fixing my current problems alone would take me years and that will put me near average person by the time, the gap is probably already widened.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#109

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:27 PM UTC

nugget wrote: post #64

alexpetralia wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate, what is to come of deliberating on existential meaning at great length? Do you think you'll find an answer, rationally speaking (that is, using the tools of reason and logic)? Notably, Godel's incompleteness theorems suggest these tools may be insufficient. More specifically, if you try to rationally "justify" what you ought to be doing, you will always be able to - legitimately! - impugn it…

Ignorance may be bliss, but only if you can remain ignorant until the absolute end. I see evidence of a paradox whereby the most powerful analytical minds are able to most effectively construct defensive counter arguments to their own inherent existential needs, allowing them to defer these needs until a criticality is reached and existential crisis manifests as a state of limbic terror which is impossible to ignore.…

[deleted]

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#110

Post by ericd » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:36 PM UTC

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #100

echelon wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you intend to sell your large cap holdings as they accrue in value every year? How do you rebalance your portfolio to account for under performers and handle cap gains? Sorry for asking so many questions! This is super informative. Thanks! :)

I haven't fully considered this, as I haven't crossed that bridge. A naive approach would dictate holding a 100/0 stock/bonds portfolio, which would never necessitate rebalancing. To date, I've likely experienced some drift, but not meaningfully since my portfolio composition was 99/1. However, of the stock portion of my portfolio, I do plan to hold about one-third international; so I should rebalance annually. This…

IIRC the Trinity study (where the 4% SWR comes from) was for portfolios with a decent chunk of bonds? And that it only claimed that SWR for a horizon of 30 years? As in, running to zero in 31 years was counted as a success.

Separately, not to rain on your parade, but I'd really be worried that 4% might not be feasible based on current market conditions - that study was based on a period when the US was rising into the role of world superpower, and most of the industrialized world had just been decimated.