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Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

improveyoursocialskills.com

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Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#101

Post by throwaway0xb »

kempbellt wrote: post #87
notJim wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, the problem with environments like that is that the best fighters win, not the best ideas. The best fighters are usually the people who can project the most confidence, talk the loudest, and who are the most popular. By contrast, environments that provide psychological safety enable people who may have better ideas, but may not be as brash and overconfident to contribute.

I understand your perspective. Unfortunately, however idealistic, I don't see that being a great benefit in the long term for anyone. I prefer environments that teach you how to advocate for your ideas. Build you up as a good self-advocate. Environments that say "Hey everybody! It's Timmy's turn to speak. Pass him the talking stick" are patronizing and disgust me at the onset. Better to have someone by your side sayi…

Pretty incredible exchange you are having with people right now where you are just straight up ignoring valid points or sweeping them aside as idealism...

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#102

Post by jfoucher »

wallflower wrote: post #53

While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken pieces of code” begging to be fixed. I’ve lost friends over this, until one…

Generally when people come to you about their problems they do not want or even need advice. Whenever I am in that position I try to help them understand the problem, by just asking questions to understand the problem clearly myself.

You can dig pretty deep in that way and they may open up to the root of the issue, and sometimes reveal a belief that is preventing them from carrying out the correct action.

In many cases once they have talked at length about the problem so that all it's ramifications are as clear for you as they are for them, they have also greatly increased their own perception of their problem, which generally reveals an obvious solution (and this is the important bit) that they themselves have to put into words. The "solution" may be obvious to you, but if you present it as such immediately you will get pushback.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#104

Post by [deleted] »

wisty wrote: post #82
solatic wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMO aggression is just assertion when it's judged to be inappropriate or incompetently done One can be assertive without being aggressive and aggressive without being assertive. They are different characteristics. Assertive and not aggressive - deciding to speak up instead of being silent. "Excuse me, can you explain this decision to me?" Aggressive and not assertive - being passive-aggressive, giving people the si…

So is a polite legal threat assertive or aggressive? edit: I'm saying - where you draw the line is about things like whether it's competent, and whether it's "OK" within the contex. A polite "excuse me" is both competent and almost always "OK". A polite legal threat might not be "OK" (and it might not be competent either) so whether you judge it to be aggressive will depend on your point of view.

[deleted]

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#105

Post by kempbellt »

jfoucher wrote: post #102
wallflower wrote: post #53

While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken pieces of code” begging to be fixed. I’ve lost friends over this, until one…

Generally when people come to you about their problems they do not want or even need advice. Whenever I am in that position I try to help them understand the problem, by just asking questions to understand the problem clearly myself. You can dig pretty deep in that way and they may open up to the root of the issue, and sometimes reveal a belief that is preventing them from carrying out the correct action. In many cas…

Can relate. Being a good listener usually allows people to solve their own problems just by you letting them explain it to you.

I used to joke that at a previous gig I was the team's therapist because I'd take people out to coffee or a beer and let them vent about whatever problem they're dealing with, while not really caring too much about it myself. Very rarely did I ever give any advice unless I was directly asked, and usually I would just give a question like "Well, have you tried this option?".

Listening to the problem while simultaneously not caring about gives the other person the ability to care less about it as well - and a solution usually presents itself.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#106

Post by drno_ »

babadabada wrote: post #80
kempbellt wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since most young women aren't exactly excited to talk about code This may reflect your subjective experience, but I have had a different experience and would (kindly) give you the heads up that this is a borderline sexist generalization. I've met women in the industry that are just as capable as nerding out over new tech as I am - even if it hasn't been very common (in my experience).

I'm a young woman in tech. I am happy to confirm that "since most young women aren't exactly excited to talk about code" is in fact some sexist bullshit.

While most people are not programmers, most programmers are not women. It's a subset of a subset, seems pretty accurate. It's worth noting though that most men aren't interested in discussing programming either. People in our field are few and far between :(

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#107

Post by wisty »

yters wrote: post #52
wisty wrote: post #43

Why are social skills always focusing on the positive? A lot of programmers often seem to be more nice guys than anything else, and need to be able to be more assertive / aggressive. Everyone tries to distinguish these two, it's mostly just in the eye of the beholder - IMO aggression is just assertion when it's judged to be inappropriate or incompetently done - a drill instructor being assertive looks different to a…

Optimal is nice aggression: push forward for the goal in the nicest way possible, and resort to more confrontational style only when absolutely necessary.

If you do it right it will be labeled "assertion" not aggression.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#108

Post by username90 »

Madmallard wrote: post #97
username90 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People will ask for advice if they really want it. People will even ask for advice even when they really don't want it! So don't say that a girl is fat and needs to diet even if she asks you why she can't get the guys she want and tell you to be honest. Some want to hear that but most don't.

What would you say is the right behavior in that situation, then?

You have to know the person to be sure they are ok with it. If there is any uncertainty then don't be honest about what you think, just give the standard advice like "Just be yourself" or "You are wonderful, just haven't found the right one yet!".

The alternative is to just be brutally honest and that way filter out friends who aren't ok with it. It might hurt a bit, but if you value this kind of communication over having many friends it could be worth it. Just don't do this at your job since you will likely get fired or managed out.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#109

Post by journalctl »

wallflower wrote: post #53

While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken pieces of code” begging to be fixed. I’ve lost friends over this, until one…

Sometimes people just want someone to listen. Sometimes there’s nothing else you can do.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#110

Post by magashna »

babadabada wrote: post #80
kempbellt wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since most young women aren't exactly excited to talk about code This may reflect your subjective experience, but I have had a different experience and would (kindly) give you the heads up that this is a borderline sexist generalization. I've met women in the industry that are just as capable as nerding out over new tech as I am - even if it hasn't been very common (in my experience).

I'm a young woman in tech. I am happy to confirm that "since most young women aren't exactly excited to talk about code" is in fact some sexist bullshit.

> most young women

I dare you to go to an average bar or club and try to talk about code with most young women. It's not happening. Most people don't code, and most coders are male.

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