Live data from Hacker News

The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

spectrum.ieee.org

101–108 of 108 posts

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#101
post #39
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social Studies majors systematically overrate the epistemological integrity of their fields.

Yeah, yet there should still be more social studies people in power at tech companies.

> Yeah, yet there should still be more social studies people in power at tech companies.

Why do you believe that?

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a myth much longer ago than 2013 yet the article is no less valid today. In fact with the rise of bootcamps and so on it has gotten even worse in software particularly. There should be laws against bootcamps ripping off hopefuls with false promises.

What false promises? Many of them graduate and are getting real jobs. One of the fastest growing new boot camps even lets people attend for free and makes back their money as a percentage of future salaries earned. Nothing could be further from ripping students off with false promises of jobs.

You must have seen the ads... “average salary in data science/cyber security/whatever is $$$” with the clear implication that taking their $$$ 8-week course will let you sail into one of these jobs.

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#103

The only people who honestly think there are a shortage of stem workers are those who aren't in stem.

No, it’s an actual conspiracy by big companies to drive down wages.

“We advertised this job for well below the going rate and didn’t get any applications, better outsource it!”

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#104
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic numerical literacy is important for everyone, but it is no exaggeration to say that moral, political and philosophical (and that includes the philosophy of science) development also separates us from far more primitive creatures over centuries. To me it makes equally as much sense to say that all that development is closed off to engineers (and I say this as someone finishing up an engineering degree myself).

I do disagree. Many other creatures play politics and morality. Wolves and chimps have power and political struggles all the time. Along with taking care of those injured. But an individual that has a history of taking more than their share and not helping the group doesn't get as much help when injured. They do have their own morality. Whether we agree with it or not, is not really our place. The same type of discus…

>Wolves and chimps have power and political struggles all the time. Along with taking care of those injured. But an individual that has a history of taking more than their share and not helping the group doesn't get as much help when injured.

This is not politics. I feel as though this discussion is stupid, since I think it's reasonable to say that the degree to which animals have "politics" is lesser than those animals which have tool use. You cannot forget that technology is always coupled to a certain stage of historical development, it does not happen in a vacuum. There is no such thing as production in general.

>Said hominid then lived for many more years. A sign they were taken care of.

A lot of animals take care of each other, it doesn't mean much in the way of how humans do it.

>So, how is morality, politics and philosophy closed off to engineers?

It is closed off in the same way that engineering is closed off to liberal arts majors, as the parent commenter claimed. That is to say, you must learn it, and learn how to argue about it. Of course I don't claim that you need to be a liberal arts major to be moral or even have cogent ideas about morality, but you still need to learn how to argue your point if you're talking about it, and you can only do that by learning about what's been argued before.

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#105
post #32

The local schools here now call it STEAM, include in "Arts" and now say: >"It will include subjects like history, social studies, and language arts, all of which are vital facets of a STEAM curriculum." and now STEM has no meaning anymore (if it ever did). These are all fine subjects, but they miss the point of the push for STEM that was based on the theory that Americans are falling behind in Math, Science, and Engi…

STEAM just correctly recognizes that STEM people systematically underrate the importance of history and social studies.

And they should offer Arts, Social Studies, and History (ASH!?) in response.

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#106
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you have successfully identified a structural issue with modern capitalism.

Care to point out what you believe is the structural issue?

That the labor of historians and social scientists is undervalued compared to the benefit they bring to humanity. There is no incentive for a large tech corp to have historians as C-level officers, even though it's a no brainier logically.

This happens because shareholder value is the only thing corporations are optimized for.

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#107
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with bootcamps? I know a few success stories, and I firmly believe that if somebody wants to learn programming, it is doable almost for everyone. It is hard, like learning a foreign language, but as nearly everybody can learn e.g. Spanish, so nearly everybody can learn how to program.

" Another reason for the current problems with bootcamp job placement is that employer expectations, and their attitudes towards bootcamp grads, have changed since the early days. A lot of employers who did hire from bootcamps found that although many of these bootcamp grads did well at interview, they had trouble being immediately productive once in post. The underlying issue was that these new hires lacked the fund…

Well, it is somewhat unrealistic to hope to secure a software engineer position in FAANG immediately after a bootcamp. A well-paid position of a (junior to mid) software engineer in a smaller company is quite achievable, though. After 2-3 years of real-world experience there one could try their hand at FAANG interviews.

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#108
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, yet there should still be more social studies people in power at tech companies.

> Yeah, yet there should still be more social studies people in power at tech companies. Why do you believe that?

Because tech companies are in way over their heads with all the social problems they've created.
Post reply on HN