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The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

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31–40 of 108 posts

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#31

Slightly off topic, but I feel like when people talk of STEM as a lucrative field of study, they tend to imply CS. Non-CS STEM field hardly have a shortage of qualified and talented people. In fact, there's probably a oversupply compared to job prospects in non-CS STEM fields. I see so many talented Math/Physics majors end up switching to CS and do mundane software engineering work.

There’s plenty of engineering jobs besides CS that pay very well.

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#32

The local schools here now call it STEAM, include in "Arts" and now say: >"It will include subjects like history, social studies, and language arts, all of which are vital facets of a STEAM curriculum." and now STEM has no meaning anymore (if it ever did). These are all fine subjects, but they miss the point of the push for STEM that was based on the theory that Americans are falling behind in Math, Science, and Engi…

STEAM just correctly recognizes that STEM people systematically underrate the importance of history and social studies.

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a myth much longer ago than 2013 yet the article is no less valid today. In fact with the rise of bootcamps and so on it has gotten even worse in software particularly. There should be laws against bootcamps ripping off hopefuls with false promises.

What’s wrong with bootcamps? I know a few success stories, and I firmly believe that if somebody wants to learn programming, it is doable almost for everyone. It is hard, like learning a foreign language, but as nearly everybody can learn e.g. Spanish, so nearly everybody can learn how to program.

"Another reason for the current problems with bootcamp job placement is that employer expectations, and their attitudes towards bootcamp grads, have changed since the early days. A lot of employers who did hire from bootcamps found that although many of these bootcamp grads did well at interview, they had trouble being immediately productive once in post. The underlying issue was that these new hires lacked the fundamental programming knowledge and other skills (such as problem-solving and technical communication) that they needed to work effectively without lots of additional support or guidance."

https://medium.com/launch-school/why-do-programming-bootcamp... (By someone selling a bootcamp, of course.)

"“Our experience has found that most graduates from these programs are not quite prepared for software engineering roles at Google without additional training or previous programming roles in the industry,” said Maggie Johnson, Google’s director of education and university relations, in a statement. “We generally don’t hire from coding schools,” said Robyn Blum, a spokeswoman for Cisco. “Coding schools haven’t been much of a focus for Autodesk,” said Raymond Deplazes, a spokesman."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-12-06/want-a-jo...

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#34

The local schools here now call it STEAM, include in "Arts" and now say: >"It will include subjects like history, social studies, and language arts, all of which are vital facets of a STEAM curriculum." and now STEM has no meaning anymore (if it ever did). These are all fine subjects, but they miss the point of the push for STEM that was based on the theory that Americans are falling behind in Math, Science, and Engi…

I have literally been saying just this for years when someone says "STEAM". At that point, it is just school again.

I agree that History, Art, Music, Literature, Philosophy...etc are important and can't imagine a world without them, but the whole point behind STEM was to put a focus on Math and Science because those help us keep our economic edge and solve the world's upcoming problems on the technical side.

Providing some after school programs to cover programming, computers (real computing principles and not just how to use Microsoft products and type), robotics, and additional math is good and gives our children a leg up. 1-hour of Math a day might not be enough.

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#35
post #32

The local schools here now call it STEAM, include in "Arts" and now say: >"It will include subjects like history, social studies, and language arts, all of which are vital facets of a STEAM curriculum." and now STEM has no meaning anymore (if it ever did). These are all fine subjects, but they miss the point of the push for STEM that was based on the theory that Americans are falling behind in Math, Science, and Engi…

STEAM just correctly recognizes that STEM people systematically underrate the importance of history and social studies.

Social Studies majors systematically overrate the epistemological integrity of their fields.

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#36
post #30

It seems to me that there is a shortage of qualified employees and yet also a shortage of jobs in every single well-paid, well regarded sector. It's almost as if we want people to train themselves to work doing hard stuff and also don't want to pay them to do it. In other news, water is wet.

Define "shortage".

Scenario 1: People are starving. There is not enough food available, at any price, to meet the need, and there is a hard lower bound on how much is needed. We say that there's a shortage of food.

Scenario 2: There is a supply-and-demand situation for some limited good, and some who desire to use that good get priced out. This is the normal functioning of a market. Those who get priced out, though, complain about a "shortage" of that good. What they actually mean, though, is not an absolute shortage, but a shortage at the price they are willing or able to pay.

I think the STEM shortage is the second kind. Sure, your company could do all kinds of nifty things if engineers were abundant and free. That doesn't mean there's a "Scenario 1" shortage, though.

In the meantime, the engineers want jobs that pay twice as much as their current ones. There's a "shortage" of those, too.

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#37
post #11

Slightly off topic, but I feel like when people talk of STEM as a lucrative field of study, they tend to imply CS. Non-CS STEM field hardly have a shortage of qualified and talented people. In fact, there's probably a oversupply compared to job prospects in non-CS STEM fields. I see so many talented Math/Physics majors end up switching to CS and do mundane software engineering work.

It's much worse in life-sciences where PhDs are washing pipettes or feeding mice.

...and yet those in the life sciences who took a more practical path, for example, nurses, are both well paid and in high demand.

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#38
post #32

The local schools here now call it STEAM, include in "Arts" and now say: >"It will include subjects like history, social studies, and language arts, all of which are vital facets of a STEAM curriculum." and now STEM has no meaning anymore (if it ever did). These are all fine subjects, but they miss the point of the push for STEM that was based on the theory that Americans are falling behind in Math, Science, and Engi…

STEAM just correctly recognizes that STEM people systematically underrate the importance of history and social studies.

Not underrate. There are only so many hours to spend learning. Current school systems put Math on the same footing with History, PE, foreign language...etc.

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#39
post #35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

STEAM just correctly recognizes that STEM people systematically underrate the importance of history and social studies.

Social Studies majors systematically overrate the epistemological integrity of their fields.

Yeah, yet there should still be more social studies people in power at tech companies.

Re: The STEM Crisis Is a Myth (2013)

#40
post #37
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's much worse in life-sciences where PhDs are washing pipettes or feeding mice.

...and yet those in the life sciences who took a more practical path, for example, nurses, are both well paid and in high demand.

Well paid nurses? Which country would that be?
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